People... Sort it out for yourself. Read the books that have been published for the last 100 years. If you can't choose how to live and protect your own life and ways.... freedom is already gone. No matter who is "in charge" of the country. None of this selfish crap happened or kept happening in the Native Americans communities. Life started down hill after the white man moved to the continent.
I honestly have to laugh about the partisan Blame Game seen on this comment line. From Bush back to the original white man coming upon the continent...ha! How does Glass know what really happened in the 1700's in the native American communities? BTW: nations and people get CONQUERED; it went on for centuries prior to the one on the North American continent - get over it. As for the ignorant statement about our Founding Fathers being only deists or agnostics: go to http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm -- the Majority thought was in support of the Christian faith and of Judeo-Christian basics. Even Jefferson, long thought to be only a deist (or so taught to us in our leftist public schools) admits to being a Christian. All this being said - our Liberty has ALWAYS been endangered by folks who hate us for it, or by folks who want to sell us out (the most recent started with FDR, a blatant progressive who initiated the Ponzi scheme known as Social Security). We DO still have our Freedom, but it has been greatly eroded; socialist thought and behavior (yes, that's what BHO and his cronies support) - will bring us down sooner. That's what the Tea Party folks are ticked about, and why November can't come soon enough.
This post comes on 9/11/10 -- NEVER FORGET: there are folks out there still who want to bring us down (in fact, the Jihadists want to kill us all, and consider America the "Great Satan" - ask Ahmadinejad). Don't give up your freedoms; don't let our government take over our individual or states' rights!! VOTE for people who will represent YOU, not their own interests or those of whoever sends them the most money. VOTE for those who will UPHOLD our laws, not undermine them in order to erode national security (borders). Find out what the Founding Fathers really wanted (read original documents!!), and God Bless America!!
This actually all started with industrialization during WW2. Eisehnhower warned of the industrial military complex gaining to much influence in govt. during his resognation speach. I do find it funny that most of our personal freedoms were lost during the Bush admin, under the guys of "security", but yet all the republicans think Obama is the cause of this. Remember he inherrited a huge pile of shit that Bush and his greedy cronies messed up. But really, we need to remember we are all Americans, all on the same team, and parties just divide us into fighting each other so nothing changes. We spend more time bickering over party power than trying to actually solve problems.
That "Snake-Oil" salesman looks like Obama in a Cab Calloway suit...interesting...NIETHER political party has the country's best interest in mind...only THEIR job security. Less government, more unity...it's pretty simple.
I just want to clear up Robert J. Sodaro's point about Old Glory always having the stars in the top left. It's a 2-sided flag, sir. When you hang it from a pole and the wind blows you will either see the stars in the top left or the top right. If you knew anyone in the military you would know that when we are at war, our troops wear the flag on their arm with the stars in the top left.
With all the fuss over a Moslem center in NY you miuss the following:
1) In the Pentagon there is a Moslem prayer center. Why is the military silent on the site in NY?
2) The FACT is that the WTC came down with planned explosives and the planes, while probably run by Al-queda, could not have brought them down. Building 7 was not even hit and it came down the same way. There is zero mention of it in the 911 report.
Take a look at the physics: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182697765360042032#
There is no government to trust. We have advanced beyond to corporate control. For example, in the nonsensical fuss about the Moslem center in NY:
1) The pentagon has a Moslem prayer room and the pentgon was hit on 911. Why doesn't the military speak up?
2) The physics is absolutely reliable in that the WTC was brought down by planned demolition, not Al-Queda planes. Newton is correct. They came down in free fall, not by Muslim terrorists. Anyone who had tried to soften steel in kerosene fire knows that. But see the physics:
There is no government to trust. We have advanced beyond to corporate control. For example, in the nonsensical fuss about the Moslem center in NY:
1) The pentagon has a Moslem prayer room and the pentgon was hit on 911. Why doesn't the military speak up?
2) The physics is absolutely reliable in that the WTC was brought down by planned demolition, not Al-Queda planes. Newton is correct. They came down in free fall, not by Muslim terrorists. Anyone who had tried to soften steel in kerosene fire knows that. But see the physics:
There is no government to trust. We have advanced beyond to corporate control. For example, in the nonsensical fuss about the Moslem center in NY:
1) The pentagon has a Moslem prayer room and the pentgon was hit on 911. Why doesn't the military speak up?
2) The physics is absolutely reliable in that the WTC was brought down by planned demolition, not Al-Queda planes. Newton is correct. They came down in free fall, not by Muslim terrorists. Anyone who had tried to soften steel in kerosene fire knows that. But see the physics:
" ... and accordingly all Experience hath shewn [shown], that Mankind are more disposed [willing] to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which the are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations [seize something without right], pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces [a feeling of] a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism [ruled by tyranny], it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and provide new Guards for their future Security. "
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776. A DECLARATION
An excerpt from our Declaration of Independence with old English translations.
American Miguel Say... Yes I grew as an inmigrant in the USA where Americans were free to dream and invent, yet now after 8 years of a group of politicians who defended their rich friends first forgot that Americans are and shall always be one Nation, News Networks that have engaged in dividing us by lying to the greatest citizens in the world.
American Miguel Said... Yes I grew as an inmigrant in the USA where Americans were free to dream and invent, yet now after 8 years of a group of politicians who defended their friends first forgot that Americans are and shall always be one Nation, News Networks that have engaged in dividing us by lying to the greatest citizens in the world.
American Miguel Said... Yes I grew as an inmigrant in the USA where Americans were free to dream and invent, yet now after 8 years of a group of politicians who defended their friends first forgot that Americans are and shall always be one Nation, News Networks that have engaged in dividing us by lying to the greatest citizens in the world.
I notice several comments talk about the past administration, and the fact that this is only one point of view, i.e. the Christian, and leaving out the Jews and Muslims, etc. These people just don't want to get it. They are part of the problem. The reason this was sent out in 1948 is that the Communist announced they were going to infiltrate our country and create the racial and economic divides (class warfare) that would tear us apart. They also said they would attack our schools, churches, unions, and any other element of our society that helped hold us together as a people. Remember "United we stand, divided we fall." It appears that this "ism" is working to perfection.
I notice several comments talk about the past administration, and the fact that this is only one point of view, i.e. the Christian, and leaving out the Jews and Muslims, etc. These people just don't want to get it. They are part of the problem. The reason this was sent out in 1948 is that the Communist announced they were going to infiltrate our country and create the racial and economic divides (class warfare) that would tear us apart. They also said they would attack our schools, churches, unions, and any other element of our society that helped hold us together as a people. Remember "United we stand, divided we fall." It appears that this "ism" is working to perfection.
No One Was Listening AMERICA WAS ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL...HE FOREWARNED US,BUT WE SLEPT.... Horrific, but, no one was listening!!!! The following is a narrative taken from a 2008 Sunday morning televised "Meet The Press'. The author (Dale Lindsborg) is employed by none other than the very liberal Washington Post!!
From Sunday's 07 Sept. 2008 11:48:04 EST, Televised "Meet the Press" THE THEN Senator Obama was asked about his stance on the American Flag.
General Bill Ginn' USAF (ret.) asked Obama to explain WHY he doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem is played.
The General stated to Obama that according to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171... During rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed, all present (except those in uniform) are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Or, at the very least, "Stand and Face It".
NOW GET THIS !! - - - - -
'Senator' Obama replied:
"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking sides". "There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression.." "The anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all that sort of thing."
(ARE YOU READY FOR THIS???) KEEP READING
Obama continued: "The National Anthem should be 'swapped' for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing'. If that were our anthem, then, I might salute it. In my opinion, we should consider reinventing our National Anthem as well as 'redesign' our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and love. It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the level of acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we, as a Nation of waring people, conduct ourselves like the nations of Islam, where peace prevails - - - perhaps a state or period of mutual accord could exist between our governments ."
The last two paragraphs put the handwriting on the wall!! DC
When I become President, I will seek a pact of agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from disquieting oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation, have placed upon the nations of Islam, an unfair injustice which is WHY my wife disrespects the Flag and she and I have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past".
"Of course now, I have found myself about to become the President of the United States and I have put my hatred aside. I will use my power to bring CHANGE to this Nation, and offer the people a new path. My wife and I look forward to becoming our Country's First black Family. Indeed, CHANGE is about to overwhelm the United States of America "
Yes, you read it right. I, for one, am speechless!!!
No One Was Listening AMERICA WAS ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL...HE FOREWARNED US,BUT WE SLEPT.... Horrific, but, no one was listening!!!! The following is a narrative taken from a 2008 Sunday morning televised "Meet The Press'. The author (Dale Lindsborg) is employed by none other than the very liberal Washington Post!!
From Sunday's 07 Sept. 2008 11:48:04 EST, Televised "Meet the Press" THE THEN Senator Obama was asked about his stance on the American Flag.
General Bill Ginn' USAF (ret.) asked Obama to explain WHY he doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem is played.
The General stated to Obama that according to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171... During rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed, all present (except those in uniform) are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Or, at the very least, "Stand and Face It".
NOW GET THIS !! - - - - -
'Senator' Obama replied:
"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking sides". "There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression.." "The anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all that sort of thing."
(ARE YOU READY FOR THIS???) KEEP READING
Obama continued: "The National Anthem should be 'swapped' for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing'. If that were our anthem, then, I might salute it. In my opinion, we should consider reinventing our National Anthem as well as 'redesign' our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and love. It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the level of acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we, as a Nation of waring people, conduct ourselves like the nations of Islam, where peace prevails - - - perhaps a state or period of mutual accord could exist between our governments ."
The last two paragraphs put the handwriting on the wall!! DC
When I become President, I will seek a pact of agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from disquieting oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation, have placed upon the nations of Islam, an unfair injustice which is WHY my wife disrespects the Flag and she and I have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past".
"Of course now, I have found myself about to become the President of the United States and I have put my hatred aside. I will use my power to bring CHANGE to this Nation, and offer the people a new path. My wife and I look forward to becoming our Country's First black Family. Indeed, CHANGE is about to overwhelm the United States of America "
Yes, you read it right. I, for one, am speechless!!!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories! Pathetic!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories! Pathetic!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories! Pathetic!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories! Pathetic!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories! Pathetic!
Someone made the comment that bush kept us safe after 9/11. What? 9/11 happened while he was in office, well he was actually in a classroom in Sarasota, Florida. If bush would have gone after bin Laden and al-Qaeda, we would not be talking about Afghanistan right now. There has been un rest in the middle east since time began. The ONLY reason we are there is to "protect our interests" which is code word for oil. bush/cheney lied to Congress and to the American people to invade Iraq, taking advantage of our anger and fear. After the Iraq war is all said and done, that little price tag will be a cool 3 TRILLION, (including VA costs), not to mention the loss of thousands of our troops, (more US people that died in the 9/11 attacks and close to a million innocent Iraqi men, women and children. Please, for the love of God, do not defend bush or cheney. They are mass murderers and war criminals. Keep an eye on bush and cheney. See how many times they leave this country. They are at least smart enough to know that they will be arrested for war crimes. We might as well have sent a gold embossed invitation to every country to invade us if they THINK we have weapons of mass destruction. We go to war when we are in an immediate threat. Iraq was and is never has been a threat to us.
To Joemama, My comment was taken directly from videos that had been on TV, with the photo of Obama not saluting the flog on a newspaper. One photo showed Obama on a stage with Hillary Clinton and the local governor. They were all facing the audience, but while both Hillary and the Governor had their hands over their hearts, Obama had his hands folded below the waist. Also, he made the flag pin comment on the news,and well as the comment I posted, plus every move he makes shows that he is not an American patriot, but a Socialist intent on transforming our country into a Global nation until control of a UN type organization. Instead of me being a moran, it seems to me that you are a far-left liberal lurking on the site so you can make derogatory comments. I have nine years of college and earned my living as a writer/editor /producer in all the mediums, especially while I as an investigative reporter. I've been investigating Obama since he first entered the 2006 presidential race, mainly because he has never been vetted like all presidential candidates are supposed to be.
What is really scary is that when you remove the skin, what is different about the wants, goals and aspirations of a Hispanic Caucasian, a Fair Caucasian, a Negroid, an Oriental, and an Indiginous Person? The answer is not a diddly damn. You cannot be a racist and try to impart "traits" on the desires of anyone. All too often the imbecils gain control of the newsmedia, and they haven't given up control since 1966.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
– Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Treasury Secretary Albert Gallatin (1802)
I strongly believe that Bush made up 911, if not, take a look at the Pentagon, no military personnel at the "airplane" hit, no wheels, no wings, no flames... this is a make up. Mr. Obama is also comitting other kind of crimes against humanity, killing the desire of people of working hard for what they want...this is incredible, XXI century, with the last presidents ready to be tied and locked...
Yes, it is all true, the things the people are saying about getting the country back in shape. Throw out those commies, throw out those socialists, throw out those statists.
Also true is that almost to a T, the very people that comment this way on this blog post, will on electio day also go out and again and again vote their republican ticket. Many of them when pressed giving the "lesser of 2 evils" platitude.
I have tried many times to engage those that seemed to stand the best chance of seeing the light (for example people such as those that have posted coments to this blog item) and they turn glassy eyed when you talk about their own republican delegations voting FOR that thing called the TARP or about how Bush implementes the biggest intenal syp mechine this side of 1939 ... for our protection they say. They make up excuses about how it must have been necessary, and they simply refuse to see anything wrong in what happened ( duh more stat ism)
Heck, I even had a revealing, yet also disappointing, chat with Mitt Romney a couple weeks back and posted about it on my blog http://senecawrites.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-chat-with-mitt-romney.html and even he misses the point that the republicans and the republican voters are out of touch. (Well, he probably gets that last part and will use it effectively.)
Yes, republicans can take the house and the senate, but I fear that it will just be more of the same, camouflaged to look as something different. Whis that I might for it to be Left vs Right, but it is not it is the STATE vs YOU.
I have been watching this 'toon' circulating around the Internet and emails for two years now. I held the truth then in 1948 as it does today. We all lose when Liberal/Progressives are in charge...Woodrow Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Carter and now especially dangerous, Obama! In less that two years, him and his cronies have all but destroyed the greatest country the planet. Even our great military does not like serving a Commander in Chief who has continually put this country down, or apologized for it's past. Many of our freedoms are now eroding, and many more are in jeopardy in the very near future...As he has promised, even if the Republicans win either House, it will be a "Gun Fight"...nice, huh!! He brags about his agenda's passing, however he did so without American approval, the majority, including many democrats were against all his legislation.
Well, "Patriot"55, we know you can't wait to start ordering us all in choruses of the "Horst Wessel" song and directing of the "Goose-Stepping" school. I'm sure you are aware that g.w.b.'S grandfather, Prescott, was indicted under the "Alien & Sedition Act" in 1943 (Congressional Record) for heading the U.S. branch of the German bank (funneling money and orders to Hitler). I don't know why you attack Obama? At this point in time I think he should change his name to "Quisling"!
And Yes, Prescott was getting his orders from many of the same people you are.
magistre, it is your party who is closer to Socialism/Marxism than most of the past presidents, and I guess you buy the theory Hitler was Right Wing, NO WAY...try reading real history. I deal with the living..If your grandfather was a commie spy, does that make you one also? Bush 43 only left a deficit of #480 Billion, the $700 Billion in TARP was left to Obama to loan to the failing banks, had he not done so, there would have been no doubt of another Great Depression thanks to Barney Frank and Acorn (and the Freddies)! At least when I was in the Military, my vote was counted, no way I would volunteer under Obama, ever. I want my grandchildren to have a future, cut the damned spending!
To: Patriot55! Do you realize how old and tired the "Socialist" and "Marxist" lines are? Every time a Democrat gets in to office, the same BS is spewed. Find some new material. At the end of President Obama's term, we will not be any closer to being a socialized nation then when he first took office. You will not be losing any of your freedoms that you enjoy. Oh, and as for TARP? That was a bush jr. deal, not President Obama! TARP was the 3 page document that bush & company presented to Congress. Nice try though. You obviously have not read any history and must have lived in a cave before 2009.
To: Patriot55 - I do agree, we have to cut the spending. I have said it before on this blog, lets put it in perspective! The illegal/immoral/needless war in Iraq will end up costing us $3 TRILLION dollars, (including all VA costs associated.) If the GOP will finally wake up and figure out that the "trickle down" affect does not work. That little experiment has been proved under the bush w. administrations tax cuts for the wealthy. When a CEO is making a billion dollars and his $35,000 secretary is paying more in taxes, things have to change.
Your biggest problem PatriotSS is that you only read who and what you agree with. You rte the one that needs to learn to deal with reality. A dictator is a dictator is a dictator-it matters not what he calls himself. And your fascist,elite uber-rich have sold all us ordinary folk down the river a long time ago. And yes, it can matter the political belief of your grandparent.
To: CO Nana- So, do you think everyone in the United States should be a Christian and practice Judeo-Christian basics? Cause if that is the case, that is what is called "Communism!" What is great about America is that we can worship who we want. Your philosophy is what gets the GOP in trouble.
magistre, no actually..I have no idea how old the Socialist/Marxist tags have been used before this president, I have been in both parties in my life, I have not seen it used before, nor have I heard it used before Obama. After reading his two books, he practically admits to being one, how in 'college he surrounded himself with Marxist friend and Professors'. Yes I read the NYT, WaPo, L.A. Times...ect. I watch the MSM as well as FNC, then I use Lexus-Lexus to verify my own findings, as well as other research sources which do not have a political agenda. In fact I found Bob Woodward's new book fascinating. Never in my life have heard a president blame everyone but himself. Your point on TARP, if you re-read my comment, I said Bush he had the TARP passed, it was at the end of September but no time to spend the Money.
*Phillip, nearly all of the wars that 90% of BOTH Parties agreed to go to war with Iraq and Afghanistan, the Troop Surge Obama said in Congress would never work...now HE is taking credit for it succeeding, gee what a guy. Capitalism is the engine that has always grown this country, your claim about a CEO's secretary's pay is just not true. You can check some of those out on Yahoo Finance, most make in the range of $65,000 to $80,000 per year depending of the size of the Co. I watched the debate on C-SPAN regarding leaving the tax cut in their entirety, 41 Democrats voted to keep all of them. On a straight up or down vote it would have passed. Now it's too late, look for even the poorest workers salary to increase until it is fixed, which will take months after the new year.
A person is not born with intellect, one must first separate the truth from fiction taught in schools. I went along with many of those lies at my University just to achieve a passing grade, the only time I argued and won a debate with one of my professors, my 4.0 went down to 3.86..
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." _ Thomas Jefferson
magistre, no actually..I have no idea how old the Socialist/Marxist tags have been used before this president, I have been in both parties in my life, I have not seen it used before, nor have I heard it used before Obama. After reading his two books, he practically admits to being one, how in 'college he surrounded himself with Marxist friend and Professors'. Yes I read the NYT, WaPo, L.A. Times...ect. I watch the MSM as well as FNC, then I use Lexus-Lexus to verify my own findings, as well as other research sources which do not have a political agenda. In fact I found Bob Woodward's new book fascinating. Never in my life have heard a president blame everyone but himself. Your point on TARP, if you re-read my comment, I said Bush he had the TARP passed, it was at the end of September but no time to spend the Money.
*Phillip, nearly all of the wars that 90% of BOTH Parties agreed to go to war with Iraq and Afghanistan, the Troop Surge Obama said in Congress would never work...now HE is taking credit for it succeeding, gee what a guy. Capitalism is the engine that has always grown this country, your claim about a CEO's secretary's pay is just not true. You can check some of those out on Yahoo Finance, most make in the range of $65,000 to $80,000 per year depending of the size of the Co. I watched the debate on C-SPAN regarding leaving the tax cut in their entirety, 41 Democrats voted to keep all of them. On a straight up or down vote it would have passed. Now it's too late, look for even the poorest workers salary to increase until it is fixed, which will take months after the new year.
A person is not born with intellect, one must first separate the truth from fiction taught in schools. I went along with many of those lies at my University just to achieve a passing grade, the only time I argued and won a debate with one of my professors, my 4.0 went down to 3.86..
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." _ Thomas Jefferson
magistre, no actually..I have no idea how old the Socialist/Marxist tags have been used before this president, I have been in both parties in my life, I have not seen it used before, nor have I heard it used before Obama. After reading his two books, he practically admits to being one, how in 'college he surrounded himself with Marxist friend and Professors'. Yes I read the NYT, WaPo, L.A. Times...ect. I watch the MSM as well as FNC, then I use Lexus-Lexus to verify my own findings, as well as other research sources which do not have a political agenda. In fact I found Bob Woodward's new book fascinating. Never in my life have heard a president blame everyone but himself. Your point on TARP, if you re-read my comment, I said Bush he had the TARP passed, it was at the end of September but no time to spend the Money.
*Phillip, nearly all of the wars that 90% of BOTH Parties agreed to go to war with Iraq and Afghanistan, the Troop Surge Obama said in Congress would never work...now HE is taking credit for it succeeding, gee what a guy. Capitalism is the engine that has always grown this country, your claim about a CEO's secretary's pay is just not true. You can check some of those out on Yahoo Finance, most make in the range of $65,000 to $80,000 per year depending of the size of the Co. I watched the debate on C-SPAN regarding leaving the tax cut in their entirety, 41 Democrats voted to keep all of them. On a straight up or down vote it would have passed. Now it's too late, look for even the poorest workers salary to increase until it is fixed, which will take months after the new year.
A person is not born with intellect, one must first separate the truth from fiction taught in schools. I went along with many of those lies at my University just to achieve a passing grade, the only time I argued and won a debate with one of my professors, my 4.0 went down to 3.86..
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." _ Thomas Jefferson
warren and finn, Warren very well put, im with you... may we stand together in battle against the darkness and evil that seems to think its won, it has turned the hearts of men against one another and destroyed hope for the weak...as in finns case, here is someone who is only interested in what he is getting from the govt. and harboring hatred for the hardworking as opposed to becoming a better person thru educating himself and feeling the self worth that comes from working for the things he is getting for free, spiritually he/she is weak and powerless and essentially of no use to either side ///to coin a phrase...heaven doesnt want them and their to stupid for hell. AS FOR THE CARTOON its message is a very accurate discription of an imbalance of power...bottom line!
seriously sad that some ppl only see the trees and not the forest.
Entitlement needs to be destroyed in America unless a person is diasabled or too old to work...What ever happened to the Puritan ethic...Think about this: How many signers of the Declaration of Independence refused to work and live off the government programs? Even the gentleman from Delaware signed the document when he was dying of cancer...Food for thought.... CSE
To: charleselmore - The founding fathers never in their wildest dreams would have predicted what this nation has come to. Back in those days contracts were hand shakes and a man kept his word. They would have never predicted the greed and lack of compassion that corporations have for their employees. The GOP keep wanting to return to the dreamland where the CEO of companies main concern was not the bottom line, but the welfare and stability of their employees. The GOP is more concerned with Wall Street than Main Street. And the worst of all is the Christian right who go to church every Sunday and profess how Godly they are, then when they are driving home spit on the homeless guy and tell him it is his own fault. All I have to say to that is 2 things. There but for the grace of God go I and most everyone is 2 or 3 paychecks away from being homeless. Back then a man would get a job and keep it for his entire life. Those days are also over. Quit living in the past!
@Phillip, I agreed with your statement up to the point of your saying, “The GOP is more concerned with Wall Street than Main Street.” and the comment afore that about big business only caring about their bottom line…everything else you put forward is a smear. You can only postulate at best what Christians think or do, in fact we have always been taught to help our neighbor regardless of skin color or social class. Exactly the way God and our Founders also taught (read “The Federalist Papers”) and still today the way we do things. We maintain a warehouse full of fans, Window A/C’s, Army blankets, food, clothes new/used and repaired appliances, generators..anything anyone could need. We have plumbers, certified electricians, carpenters, roofers, all who help the poor to all who need it, we also coordinate with the Black and Hispanic (usually Catholic) churches as to who needs what. We work a shelters, drive the streets during the worst summers, winters, hurricanes to help those who do not have what they need. Many of the Fortune Companies donate an unbelievable amount of money and the supplies we need.
We have a few democrats in our church who also help, but there are not any Liberals or Progressives. Christians cannot pray in our schools, but Muslims are allowed, why is that?
I worked Katrina, an brought a family back to Texas with me, hired the husband at my workplace, it turned out he had skills and is making $75.00 an hour including overtime if he wants, a 401K with company matching funds, and yearly bonuses. They were able to get their own place within three months and moved out of our home. We never have even take deductions on our charitable donations on our tax returns; it ends up coming out of the government coffers.
Are you aware that most of the Fat Cats involved in the Hedge funds on Wall Street are Liberals, in fact, Obama’s new Federal Regulators and their Czar are now making Wall Streeters even richer than before…great plan there, huh? His “Summer of Recovery” cost Americans another 600,000 lost jobs, increased out Debt 4.5 Trillion dollars and expected to lose another 1.6 trillion next year (if spending stops) just to pay for the Bills they have already passed, not to mention $550 Billion a year in interest..mostly to the Chinese.
So, Ann, if everyone would just be good little boy and girl Christians, everything would be a-ok! Sure, back in their day, contracts were not signed, a deal was made with a handshake. Those days are long gone. The greed of Wall Street have the founding fathers rolling over in their graves.
What some people seem to forget is what makes this country great is we are allowed to worship who we please. Our founding fathers, never in their wildest dreams would have predicted the greed and corruption of our time.
This isn't really too hard to believe. In 1948 there was a fear, among rational people, that the communist menace was poising itself to take over the world. It's much more prevalent and obvious today. An interesting cartoon, nonetheless.
...for our Neocon friends with short term memory loss, or revisionist history brain washing-- lets review W's contribution to our Republic:
The Bush administration, which during 2,920 days presided over foreign policy blundering (Korea, Iran), domestic policy blundering (Katrina), a trillion in war related debt (Iraq, Afghanistan), political pronouncements followed by inaction (We're addicted to oil), crony/ incompetent political appointments (Brownie, you're doing a helluva job), a fear premised national security policy (we'll keep you safe), a global economic melt down, the near abrogation of the Bill of Rights (secret legal memos, wire taps), the return of torture (water boarding) and disregard for the Geneva Conventions (Abu Ghraib), world wide loss of American prestige and humiliation (shoe throwing incident), Karl Rove's 'permanent majority' (DOJ firing's), Dick Cheney (Valerie Plame, Scooter Libby falls on his sword, Enron collapse, no bid Halliburton contracts, JSOC team reporting directly to office of the VP), its mind blowing really. Its also true that almost every administration is remembered for one or more political blunders-- Eisenhower (U2), Kennedy (Bay of Pigs, Marilyn Monroe), Johnson (Vietnam), Nixon (Watergate), Carter (Panama Canal, Hostages), Regan (Oliver North), Bush1 (lengthy recession), Clinton (Lewinsky)-- but George W. Bush leads everyone.
You like so many other Liberal/Progressives just cannot do not know the real truth, stop following MediaMatters and other social/Marxist web sites, including the so-called MSM…Your talking points are so old and outdated, and this is all you could come up with??? As for the Economic Collapse, it came to a boil in 2007...So remember this lesson in Civics:
**Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democratic Party. Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the “budget process” and Housing (i.e. Freddie Mae & Freddie Mac) for FY 2007, FY 2008 and FY 2009 as well as FY 2010 and FY 2011.**
Bush was had the best policy for Korea before and since, under BHO and Hillary they became a fully operational Nuclear power. ..Just as with Iran, talking to them does absolutely nothing with the exception of them laughing at this Admnin. Demoncrats (overwhelmingly) and Republicans voted for the war in Iran and Afghanistan, which was PAID for!!
Valerie Plame was guilty of sending her husband to Nigeria to look for Yellow Cake Uranium, which was found, but never reported, she did not have the authority to send her husband in the first place, therefore she ousted herself and tried to blame in on someone else. Global Warming is now (and has been) a hoax, only now more of the previous scientists, some of whom were on Gore’s false documentary. Abu Ghraib had NOTHING to do with Bush; it was a Captain without authority to allow that to happen…So I suppose you will blame obama for the large increase in civilian deaths in Afghanistan?
Obama has more “no bid” contracts than the Bush Admin ever had, which was a real sealed bid…not reported by the MSM, I am so surprised...LOL!
The current President has absolutely no business being in such a position, the man is clueless and a Socialist/Marxist. The Idiot Carter had the worst economy in modern history, till now. Bush only left $480 Billion for Obama; the $700 Billion in TARP was to be loans for banks and GM/Chrysler. Our current president was also left the $700 Billion, Bush never spent it, and he wasn’t in office long enough. Personally I disagreed with the TARP in the first place; make the loans directly to those who needed it, rather than taking them over by the Government.
Bush gave America the greatest economy in many, many years. Unemployment under 5% from 2006 through 2007 (when the Dems controlled both houses), yes I was angry with Republican spending, so I helped vote them out of office, just as you should now. I voted for JFK, I was sorely disappointed when he changed his mind on the Bay of Pigs, we would have never had Castro in office, Cuba would be a democracy now, and his inaction caused the nuclear stand-off with Russia by leaving Castro in power.
In just 20 months, Obama has added $ 3.5 Trillion to our Debt, and it is rising, from his campaign in 2008 through last month, all he could talk about were “Shovel Ready Jobs”, this month he admits there is no such thing as a shovel ready job. Now we find out in a Law Suit (not mentioned by the MSM) that obama and others at Columbia U lied, obama not only did not graduate, he never went to school there at all, that an d ruining our country the man should be impeached, period!!
@JoyFulOne, allow me to guess, you are from California, your post may be deleted for using all caps as a form of yelling.
The 111th Congress after the 2006 mid-term elections was made up of:
233 Democrats 202 Republicans
This gave the Democrats and 53.6% Majority with Nancy Pelosi taking the Speaker of the House
The Senate:
53 Democrats (Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Joe Lieberman of Connecticut) who caucused with the Democrats. 47 Republicans
This gave Harry Reid the Majority Leadership
Barney Frank is the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee; he does not need to pass a bill regarding the Housing Markets or Regulations.
FYI, Frank allowed the Freddie’s to buy failed mortgages by the boat loads, not to mention the millions of Sub-Prime Mortgages
From your comment: “BUSH/CHENEY ONLY CARED ABOUT STARTING THE ILLEGAL/NEEDLESS/SENSELESS WAR IN IRAQ AND KEEPING THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX ALIVE AND WELL. IRAQ WAS NOT THEN OR IS NOT NOW A THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES.”
If that was an Illegal war, why did so many Democrats vote for both Iraq and Afghanistan? In 2002 the vote to go to war with Iraq, the Joint Resolution 114 was taken on October 11, 2002. It passed the Senate by a vote of 77 to 23, and the House of Representatives by a vote of 296 to 133. The Intel was based on the CIA, MI-5 of the U.K., Pakistan’s Intelligence Service, and other European Intelligence sources. The British fighters also found yellow cake uranium, parts of centrifuges, and we now know for a fact that it was all sent to Syria, once it was put together again, Israel bombed and destroyed the nuclear plant. I was also in Iraq, before, during and after my service (as a private citizen in the latter years), I have spent 17 years of my life in the Middle East. I have been captured, beaten and tortured at the hands of Muslims for six months before escaping. I am talking about sever torture; water-boarding was the easiest one I went through. I don’t need Google, although my findings can be found there, I got my information from Nexus-Lexus, the world’s largest database of everything printed or on video, including released government papers, of which all presidents and the D.O.D/Pentagon. Saddam Hussein was the murderer, killing over 400,000 of his own people to test Serine Gas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LexisNexis I read at least five books per month, most are non-fiction and from both parties, even to the point of both books by Obama, read them, they will give you some insight into who and how his views were formed. You will never know the truth by watching the MSM or from the Internet. Judging from your post, I seriously doubt you want to really know the truth, you’re already have mind made up…congratulations on your indoctrination~!
To Patriot55: Iraq? The reason so many Democrats voted for it is because they believed the lies that bushtard told them. Plus, America was so mad and scared that they would have voted to blow up the Middle East, take names later. I watched C-Span daily from 2006 until President Obama took office and NOTHING got done.
The reason I used CAPS was because I orginally copied and pasted your post and then used CAPS to distinquish between what you said and what I said. If anyone on God's green earth thinks it was a good idea to invade Iraq, they need to check in to a mental institution. I gotta run, but will respond to the rest of your post later.
To: magistre - What in the heck are you talking about? I compare Faux News to the Jerry Springer show. If you watch Faux for one hour and got a nickel for every lie they told during that hour, you would be a billionaire. I watch it for entertainment value. And I can't watch it right after I have eaten, because Hannity, Beck, and the rest of the idiots make me want to puke. Anyone who watches Faux News are so brainwashed, they would believe anything! And they say they are "Fair and Balanced?" That is the joke of the decade!
@magistre The first known use of a Kool-Aid drinker was used by a Republican talk radio show (at KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh) in the 1978…it is a reference to Jim Jones, and those who blindly followed him, however the radio show was the first to use it politically to describe those who would blindly follow Jimmy Carter.
As far as anyone can tell, the only illegal war by the United States was Clinton when Congress vetoed his intention to engage in the war in what was then Yugoslavia. To quote ABC TV news, “President Clinton in 1999 waged a war without Congressional approval against Serbia, a part of the country of Yugoslavia, which was ruled by a communist, Slobodan Milosevic, but which posed absolutely no military threat to the U.S. Clinton’s military intervention put the U.S. (and NATO) effectively on the side of Muslim terrorists in the Kosovo Liberation Army.”
The only shows I watch on FNC, are America Newsroom w/Meygan Kelley and Special Report w/Bret Bear, do not watch the ‘Opinion’ shows. Their actual news shows are packed with Democrats, Liberals, Progressives plus many of those are politicians, the hosts of those shows do not interrupt what they are saying and never argue with the guests. I am sorry to say that is not true with the MSM with Republicans or Conservatives. When the Republicans had control over both houses, FNC and I damned them for their run-a-way spending, I refused to vote for them to return to office…Fox News pounded them harder than the MSM!
Now you not only have a president who jams his policies down the throats of the majority of Americans (and does it with bribes and threats), he has the leaders of the E.U. Nations running away from him. He insists they do not implement austerity, but to spend their way out of trouble. Now, Germany, the U.K., Italy, and Scotland are doing much better than we are, they have slashed their debts, while ours continue to explode. Our debt is unsustainable as are the Unfunded Liabilities.
Hmmm... filtering out all of the tangential stuff many have posited and accepting the mores of the time this was produced... the basic message message is an encouragement about how well this grand experiment called the USA was working and to warn us that it was and is fragile.
Freedom. The constitution reminds us that its our inalienable right from our Creator... history shows us that its been squelched far too many times in too many places.
Freedom. The freedom to even have this discussion is beautiful... and fragile.
A warning comes to us from 1948. Someone then cared to warn us. Guess it didn't work so well based on what we did with this country.
The warning continues - freedom is fragile - rare - we need to keep it even if only as an experiment.
There are plenty of other systems in other places and we're all free to go if we wish. If you wish, go. Please be open minded enough to allow choice and diversity of political systems. Allow the US to be a free, capitalist society - honor it from a standpoint of honoring diversity if you can't wrap your head around its philosophies.
From 1948, a warning. It behooves us to listen and consider the message (over the delivery style of the time) before we judge it.
What if we heeded that warning then? We didn't. What if we did now?
What if we learned from our past?
What if we vote before we lose that right. That, too, is fragile. (here in Chicago we still have dead people who vote and ACORN gave us cartoon characters to vote...
Heed the warning. Someone is reaching out to us from that many years ago... maybe for good reason... maybe 'cause they love this country and the grandkids they never met... us.
"give me your tired your hungry your poor" - well that philosophy sure has died out. Rather it's Keep Out! McCarthyism has taken its place. So much for "ism's" What about capitalISM! Is that bad too? 1948 all children were not required to go to school and there were drinking fountains marked "coloured." "Oppressive" govt was needed to correct these wrongs among others. "You can never go home again."
Gosh, Peggy, these are the "Golden Days" that the Republicans/T-Baggers want the U.S. to return to. You know, when Uppity Poor Folk could be run out of town on a rail or tarred and feathered. And we would never have a "Darkie" President who wanted to take care of the U.P.F. In the least the T-Baggers want Obama to change his name to "Steppin' Fetch-it!
To Ester, I'm thankful to see you stood up for Bush. Bush tried for years to make Washington see what was happening and he was ignored and booed at but he was telling the truth. And, yes, for dear ole Clinton, he started most of this crap Americans are having to live with, both he and Hillary deserve each other, they are nothing but liars, cheats and I guess Hillary enjoyed his antics through her private peep hole also! Some way, we will make it, after Obomma leaves office; he and Clinton should be tied up by their heels and said "good-bye" to.
America will always have her problems but if we start watching and research who we try to put in office, 1) demand a certified BIRTH CERTIFICATE 2) how many law suits brought against them during their past and I could go on and on; WE NEED TO START DOING THINGS RIGHT!
Those of us on the Right would love to see a Black man as the President of the U.S., just not a Marxist/Obamunist liar, promoting vote cheating with confirmed cases in Nevada and 27 other states, I find it odd that the SEIU are the ones servicing the Voting Machines, typical. Two people in Florida already indicted for Voter Fraud, Illinois, they could not get the Military Ballots mailed, but they were able to get all the felons ballots, although none of the requested them…There are more felons in Illinois than Military in Cook County.
I may not be what you wrongly call a T-Bagger than an unintelligent ‘Lefty Liberal, but I am a strict Constitutionalist and agree with their message, nowhere in HISTORY has a county EVER spent its way out of an economical situation. In the Liberal/Moderate Dems who are now campaigning they would have NOT voted for the H/C had they known what was in the Bill. What a dumb a$$ thing to say, if you do not know, or have read the Bill…DO NOT VOTE on these Bills, then try to make stupid excuses.
I believe the GOLDEN DAYS were during the 1980’s, your so called “racism’ didn’t exist…After t he 9/11 attacks, the economy almost crashed, the DOW was down from 11,000 to 7,144..Bush by 2006 have more than doubled it to 14,454 (a record), a record low unemployment, paid off the two wars, record GDP…up till Congress changed hands in 2006…in which under Pelosi over $5 Trillion dollars have been spent up to this day. Congress makes law, not the President. Thank for starting the economic crash Barney Frank and Chris Dodd!
Patriot55 - You are delusional. We have never seen voting fraud like we did with Bush. See here.
This is well documented in many places.
If you were a really a strict Constitutionalist you wouldn't be making excuses for the corrupt lying fascist Bush regime. Warrantless wiretaps, illegal war, torture, patriot act, etc.
Many times in history countries have stimulated their economy to get out of recessions. Bush and Obama both knew this and acted accordingly.
Most liberal and moderate Dems did read the HC bill and knew what a valuable piece of legislation it is and continue to support it. Of course it didn't go far enough as we still need a public option but now people with pre-existing conditions can get insured and insurance companies can't drop you when you get sick. Congratulations America!
Racism didn't exist in the 80's?!? You had to have been blind in the 80's as there was rampant racism everywhere.
Bush didn't "pay off" two wars. He ran us into debt with those wars being unpaid for and his disastrous tax cuts being unpaid for as well. Then he crashed the economy with his many other blunders.
Here's an excerpt from an article in Time:
"George Bush is leaving the White House with a dismal economic record. By almost every measure — GDP growth, jobs, median incomes, financial-market performance — he stacks up as probably the least-successful President on the economic front since Herbert Hoover."
"Those of us on the Right would love to see a Black man as the President of the U.S., just not a Marxist/Obamunist liar..."
Put another way,
"We'd love to see a Black man as the President of the U.S., but first let's check to see if he's a witch first."
BEDEMIR: Tell me, what do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2: Burn!
CROWD: Burn, burn them up!
BEDEMIR: And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1: More witches!
VILLAGER #2: Wood!
BEDEMIR: So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of wood...?
BEDEMIR: Good!
CROWD: Oh yeah, yeah...
BEDEMIR: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEMIR: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah.
BEDEMIR: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No, no.
VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond!
BEDEMIR: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1: Cider!
VILLAGER #2: Great gravy!
VILLAGER #1: Cherries!
VILLAGER #2: Mud!
VILLAGER #3: Churches -- churches!
VILLAGER #2: Lead -- lead!
ARTHUR: A duck.
CROWD: Oooh.
BEDEMIR: Exactly! So, logically...,
VILLAGER #1: If... she.. weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood.
BEDEMIR: And therefore--?
VILLAGER #1: A witch!
CROWD: A witch!
Calling someone a Marxist, Communist, Socialist... or even better, drawing comparisons to Hitler (see Godwin's law) is the modern day witch hunt. The conversation instantly loses its collective IQ, and people stop talking about the issues and focus on attacking people.
First I would like to ask what color is the sky in jomama and Bob’s world today. BTW-Bob, can you spell your name backwards?
For the record…check the CBO and not the liberal media (who in the hell would ever believe the MSM…and still be sane..It is no longer news but ‘propaganda and opinion’) Bush left $480 Billion Dollars, the $700 Billion in TARP went to Obama, the bill was not passed until late September 2008.
Speaking of the CBO, the cost curve on NobamaCare is climbing at an alarming rate, it is considered completely unsustainable, only ‘four’ demcRATs have campaigned on H/C, every other Dem/Liberal/Progressive have not, nor will not even talk about it…one of the many “accomplishments’ obama twisted/bribed members of congress to go against the will of the majority of Americans…Sir, that is NOT an accomplishment!!
In Obama’s own book, he claims he was drawn to Socialists and Marxists, now he is acting like one, he may have been elected as President, but he has proved to the Country he is anything but…
The only time was happy about any part of the Wiki-Leaks this past week, was to prove there were indeed WMDs in Iraq.
Patriot55 - You said "Bush left $480 Billion Dollars, the $700 Billion in TARP went to Obama, the bill was not passed until late September 2008."
You made no point with that statement at all. Yes Bush and Obama both recognized the need for economic stimulus. It turned out costing us far less than the S&L crisis and we're getting a return on much of the money. Fantastic.
" the cost curve on NobamaCare is climbing at an alarming rate, it is considered completely unsustainable"
No, you made that up. The HC bill brings costs down while insuring 30 million more Americans. Also allows people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance and now companies can't drop you when you get sick. This is going to save a lot of lives.
"only ‘four’ demcRATs have campaigned on H/C, every other Dem/Liberal/Progressive have not, nor will not even talk about it
Why would you campaign on HC? The bill already passed. Any Democrat is willing to discuss healthcare and the additional steps we need to take to catch up to other countries in that area.
"In Obama’s own book, he claims he was drawn to Socialists and Marxists, now he is acting like one, he may have been elected as President, but he has proved to the Country he is anything but…
You're one of those people that throw around words you don't understand and lower the intelligence of any debate. If you think Obama is acting like a socialist or Marxist you're a fool.
America has had many socialized institutions since it's founding but the new healthcare bill sadly did not socialize our healthcare. It would have been nice if it had.
You are very correct, JoeMama! The 2000 election was the biggest farce of my lifetime. Everyone should read an article, (you can find it on-line), and it is called: None Dare Call It Treason, written by Viincent Bulogsi. Mr. Bulogusi (sic) is a well known prosecutor out of California. Out of 103 murder trials, he lost one. He prosecuted Charles Manson. This article should be mandatory reading for everyone. The "Conservative" U.S. Supreme Court appointed bush w. President in 2000 just as sure as I am sitting here. It is truly unbelievable how this issue hardly got any press. We should have all been marching in the streets. For Sure!
Joemama, **You made no point with that statement at all. Yes Bush and Obama both recognized the need for economic stimulus. It turned out costing us far less than the S&L crisis and we're getting a return on much of the money. Fantastic.** The point was Bush recognized they needed LOANS to get out of Frank’s mortgages meltdown that began the fall of the economy, not ‘stimulus’. All we heard from Obama for 20 months was “Shovel Ready Jobs”, only to hear him say this month, “There is no such thing as ‘shovel ready jobs.” ***What the hell was that?*** " the cost curve on NobamaCare is climbing at an alarming rate, it is considered completely unsustainable"
**No, you made that up. The HC bill brings costs down while insuring 30 million more Americans. Also allows people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance and now companies can't drop you when you get sick. This is going to save a lot of lives.**
I did not make up anything that is the truth! While only parts of the H/C Bill have gone into effect, the costs are already rising, so says the CBO. I agree that H/C needed reform, although I do not agree it needed to be completely changed or rob Medicare of $580 Billion to pay for part of the Bill. “Under health care reform, a projected 10% increase in costs in 2011…” http://businessservicenews.com/health-care-reform-plan-costs-to-increase/795354
So why did Congress and the Senate exempt themselves from the new health care bill, and well as the Administration.
Major corporations such as AT&T, McDonalds, Verizon, Boeing, Caterpillar…ect are all expected to drop health care coverage in favor of paying the per person penalty, forcing them all onto Obama’s $3,100.00 per person Government Plan, this will cause these corporations to actually save money, while driving up the cost into higher taxes. All you need do is to Google “companies dropping health coverage”.
For the first time in the history of the United States, the people are being ‘mandated’ (forced to pay the U.S. Government) for a product or service, simply unconstitutional.
**Why would you campaign on HC? The bill already passed. Any Democrat is willing to discuss healthcare and the additional steps we need to take to catch up to other countries in that area.** Every candidate will always campaign on their ‘achievements’...always, with the exception of the so-called achievements which are not popular with the majority of Americans. There are an estimated 280,000 or more doctors and specialists expected to quit their practice or move overseas. My own Oncologist retired his practice due to the new health care bill, considered by his peers to be one of the best, now gone. None of the doctors want to accept Medicare patients by 2011, is it not only a 0 sum gain, but a loss per patient now.
**You're one of those people that throw around words you don't understand and lower the intelligence of any debate. If you think Obama is acting like a socialist or Marxist you're a fool.**
Have you even read his two books??? Well I have hear this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck
So where are all the jobs from almost a trillion dollars of tax payer money, and the unemployment rate "Stayed below 8%"??
It will not be a human being that saves us or condemns us. We all walk the path that is easiest for us. The road we follow is nor straight or narrow. There is a book that gives great guidance. It is not meant to be looked at as a rule, but is a good guide for individual use. We humans have distorted the true nature of being alive. Some of you will know of the story I speak of from the book that is rarely administered or even considered in ones daily living- if it is it is distorted or taught for self righteous and controlling reasoning.The Earth is a replica of this story, Sodom and Gomorrah. It's simple and yet we seek to blame others, when in reality each of us individually are responsible for our corrupt state. We will ignore this message and will continue with our so called comfortable progressive positions that we all seek > demi-gods, control of others, conceit, just the thought of being recognized for anything that puts oneself above others. We cannot humble ourselves to realize whatever put us here allows a human to make the decision to be and do and know right from wrong, but it never gave us the right to decide who lives or dies. So we all seek control to find our way to everlasting life, whatever mutany we can implore to create our imaginary eternity, we will continue til the death of all human beings with our antics of becoming a god. Look around those of you who can handle the truth. See if you can find a human who truly knows what they are and are happy with what they have. Oh you will find those who profess it, but like many and all humans they talk the talk but never create their own way of walk. Followers of what? Leaders of who? You are all human and nothing more! My father watches while we all destroy ourselves! Its simple listen with your eyes, mouth, ears shut! Now who do you have to blame? Half of us will agree with me and yet do nothing. Half of us will call me crazy so that we do not have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals! When will we put more worth into ourselves as individuals? One must stop looking outward and seek your life from within. We are all imperfect and that is what is killing us. We seek perfection in everyone around us, yet never expect it of ourselves or accept that the human in the mirror is the one to be fixed. Imagine if all humans woke up everyday and every minute of the day concentrated on themselves instead of trying to control what was never theres to control in the first place!, Our World would be a different planet! Humans are all in the image of there creator, yet all Humans want to be the creator- a trait that is obviously not in their makeup as a talent at all! Learn to control yourself and all will see no one will have the time to control others!
It will not be a human being that saves us or condemns us. We all walk the path that is easiest for us. The road we follow is nor straight or narrow. There is a book that gives great guidance. It is not meant to be looked at as a rule, but is a good guide for individual use. We humans have distorted the true nature of being alive.
Some of you will know of the story I speak of from the book that is rarely administered or even considered in ones daily living- if it is it is distorted or taught for self righteous and controlling reasoning.The Earth is a replica of this story, Sodom and Gomorrah. It's simple and yet we seek to blame others, when in reality each of us individually are responsible for our corrupt state. We will ignore this message and will continue with our so called comfortable progressive positions that we all seek > demi-gods, control of others, conceit, just the thought of being recognized for anything that puts oneself above others. We cannot humble ourselves to realize whatever put us here allows a human to make the decision to be and do and know right from wrong, but it never gave us the right to decide who lives or dies. So we all seek control to find our way to everlasting life, whatever mutany we can implore to create our imaginary eternity, we will continue til the death of all human beings with our antics of becoming a god. Look around those of you who can handle the truth. See if you can find a human who truly knows what they are and are happy with what they have. Oh you will find those who profess it, but like many and all humans they talk the talk but never create their own way of walk. Followers of what? Leaders of who? You are all human and nothing more! Its simple listen with your eyes, mouth, ears shut! Now who do you have to blame? Half of us will agree with me and yet do nothing. Half of us will call me crazy so that we do not have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals! When will we put more worth into ourselves as individuals? One must stop looking outward and seek your life from within. We are all imperfect and that is what is killing us. We seek perfection in everyone around us, yet never expect it of ourselves or accept that the human in the mirror is the one to be fixed. Imagine if all humans woke up everyday and every minute of the day concentrated on themselves instead of trying to control what was never theres to control in the first place!, Our World would be a different planet! Humans are all in the image of there creator, yet all Humans want to be the creator- a trait that is obviously not in their makeup as a talent at all! Learn to control yourself and all will see no one will have the time to control others!
It will not be a human being that saves us or condemns us. We all walk the path that is easiest for us. The road we follow is nor straight or narrow. There is a book that gives great guidance. It is not meant to be looked at as a rule, but is a good guide for individual use. We humans have distorted the true nature of being alive. Some of you will know of the story I speak of from the book that is rarely administered or even considered in ones daily living- if it is it is distorted or taught for self righteous and controlling reasoning.The Earth is a replica of this story, Sodom and Gomorrah. It's simple and yet we seek to blame others, when in reality each of us individually are responsible for our corrupt state. We will ignore this message and will continue with our so called comfortable progressive positions that we all seek > demi-gods, control of others, conceit, just the thought of being recognized for anything that puts oneself above others. We cannot humble ourselves to realize whatever put us here allows a human to make the decision to be and do and know right from wrong, but it never gave us the right to decide who lives or dies. So we all seek control to find our way to everlasting life, whatever mutany we can implore to create our imaginary eternity, we will continue til the death of all human beings with our antics of becoming a god. Look around those of you who can handle the truth. See if you can find a human who truly knows what they are and are happy with what they have. Oh you will find those who profess it, but like many and all humans they talk the talk but never create their own way of walk. Followers of what? Leaders of who? You are all human and nothing more! Its simple listen with your eyes, mouth, ears shut! Now who do you have to blame? Half of us will agree with me and yet do nothing. Half of us will call me crazy so that we do not have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals! When will we put more worth into ourselves as individuals? One must stop looking outward and seek your life from within. We are all imperfect and that is what is killing us. We seek perfection in everyone around us, yet never expect it of ourselves or accept that the human in the mirror is the one to be fixed. Imagine if all humans woke up everyday and every minute of the day concentrated on themselves instead of trying to control what was never theres to control in the first place!, Our World would be a different planet! Humans are all in the image of there creator, yet all Humans want to be the creator- a trait that is obviously not in their makeup as a talent at all! Learn to control yourself and all will see no one will have the time to control others!
It will not be a human being that saves us or condemns us. We all walk the path that is easiest for us. The road we follow is nor straight or narrow. There is a book that gives great guidance. It is not meant to be looked at as a rule, but is a good guide for individual use. We humans have distorted the true nature of being alive. Some of you will know of the story I speak of from the book that is rarely administered or even considered in ones daily living- if it is it is distorted or taught for self righteous and controlling reasoning.The Earth is a replica of this story, Sodom and Gomorrah. It's simple and yet we seek to blame others, when in reality each of us individually are responsible for our corrupt state. We will ignore this message and will continue with our so called comfortable progressive positions that we all seek > demi-gods, control of others, conceit, just the thought of being recognized for anything that puts oneself above others. We cannot humble ourselves to realize whatever put us here allows a human to make the decision to be and do and know right from wrong, but it never gave us the right to decide who lives or dies. So we all seek control to find our way to everlasting life, whatever mutany we can implore to create our imaginary eternity, we will continue til the death of all human beings with our antics of becoming a god. Look around those of you who can handle the truth. See if you can find a human who truly knows what they are and are happy with what they have. Oh you will find those who profess it, but like many and all humans they talk the talk but never create their own way of walk. Followers of what? Leaders of who? You are all human and nothing more! Its simple listen with your eyes, mouth, ears shut! Now who do you have to blame? Half of us will agree with me and yet do nothing. Half of us will call me crazy so that we do not have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals! When will we put more worth into ourselves as individuals? One must stop looking outward and seek your life from within. We are all imperfect and that is what is killing us. We seek perfection in everyone around us, yet never expect it of ourselves or accept that the human in the mirror is the one to be fixed. Imagine if all humans woke up everyday and every minute of the day concentrated on themselves instead of trying to control what was never theres to control in the first place!, Our World would be a different planet! Humans are all in the image of there creator, yet all Humans want to be the creator- a trait that is obviously not in their makeup as a talent at all! Learn to control yourself and all will see no one will have the time to control others!
It will not be a human being that saves us or condemns us. The road we follow is nor straight or narrow. There is a book that gives great guidance. It is not meant to be looked at as a rule, but is a good guide for individual use. We humans have distorted the true nature of being alive. Some of you will know of the story I speak of-The Earth is a replica of this story, Sodom and Gomorrah. It's simple and yet we seek to blame others, when in reality each of us individually are responsible for our corrupt state. We will ignore this message and will continue with our so called comfortable progressive positions that we all seek > demi-gods, control of others, conceit, just the thought of being recognized for anything that puts oneself above others. We cannot humble ourselves to realize whatever put us here allows a human to make the decision to be and do and know right from wrong, but it never gave us the right to decide who lives or dies. So we all seek control to find our way to everlasting life, whatever mutany we can implore to create our imaginary eternity, we will continue til the death of all human beings with our antics of becoming a god. Look around those of you who can handle the truth. See if you can find a human who truly knows what they are and are happy with what they have. Oh you will find those who profess it, but like many and all humans they talk the talk but never create their own way of walk. Followers of what? Leaders of who? You are all human and nothing more! Its simple listen with your eyes, mouth, ears shut! Now who do you have to blame? Half of us will agree with me and yet do nothing. Half of us will call me crazy so that we do not have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals! When will we put more worth into ourselves as individuals? One must stop looking outward and seek your life from within. We are all imperfect and that is what is killing us. We seek perfection in everyone around us, yet never expect it of ourselves or accept that the human in the mirror is the one to be fixed. Imagine if all humans woke up everyday and every minute of the day concentrated on themselves instead of trying to control what was never theres to control in the first place!, Our World would be a different planet! Humans are all in the image of there creator, yet all Humans want to be the creator- a trait that is obviously not in their makeup as a talent at all! Learn to control yourself and all will see no one will have the time to control others!
To: eaglinmiller All of what you said sounds good in theory, but it is "dream land" stuff. The way things are going in this world is, "How can I can get ahead even if it means being corrupt and breaking rules. Hence, regulation. There are a lot of good books out there beside the Bible that teaches us what is right and wrong.
Greed will always prevail. The notion that industry left unregulated will do the right thing is down right laughable.
mn8 said... What happens when the isms peddle unity as the Hegelain-Dialectic synthesis? ---------------- Are you trying to say you believe in the Hegelain-Dialectic "Theory" although I know those who believe in it will never call it a theory. I believe that is what Liberal Progressives would like, but any form or Marxism/Globalism will be fought vigorously.
The Hegelian dialectic presupposes the factual basis for the theory of social evolutionary principles, which coincidentally backed up Marx. Marx's Darwinian theory of the "social evolution of the species," (even though it has been used for a century to create a vast new scientific community, including eugenics and socio-economics), does not adhere to the basis for all good scientific research, and appears to exist mainly to advance itself, and all its sub-socio-scientific arms, as the more moral human science. To the ACL this means the entire basis for the communitarian solution is based on a false premise, because there is no FACTUAL basis that "social evolution of the species" exists.
The Hegelian dialectic is the ridiculous idea that constant conflict and continual merging of opposite ideologies, as established by extreme right or left belief systems, will lead spiritual mankind into final perfection. (Americans understood man's spiritual quests to be outside the realm of government control). Hegel's brilliance rests in his ability to confuse and obfuscate the true motives of the planners, and millions of people world-wide have been trying to make sense of why it doesn't work for over 150 years. But like the definition of insanity, the world keeps trying it over and over expecting different results.
It was tried in the 18th and 19th centuries in Great Briton.
"PatriotSS" why is it when anyone is politically left of Hitler "they're dirty Commies,etc." but you and the Republicans want an oligarchy of the rich and that's o.k.? Personally, I don't like either end of the spectrum but over-zealous drubbing does no one any good and only adds to idiocy. Why don't you show us some of the brains you have and follow a more studied rebuttal of those you disagree with.
@magistre, so you begin your post associating my user ID with “SS”, nice. mn8 asked a question with nothing else to go on..Nor did he reply to my question, so one must make the argument he was in favor of the Hegelain-Dialectic synthesis! There was absolutely NO drubbing of anyone, period! If there is an oligarchy in our politics today, it is not the Republicans. I see no corrupt self serving on their side; however I do see it on the Left (not so much on the Mainstream Democrats). The new Republicans are the party of less government; we are also The Party of ‘Know’.
Any person who has ever run a company, been in the mid to upper hierarchy (including a manager) knows that you cannot spend your way out of this mess we are in, which of course is exactly why we must not raise taxes on anyone. Under Obama our government has grown into a monstrosity, the largest ever along with monetizing our debt will only cause inflation or worse, hyper-inflation. This country is not over 50% Republican, yet opposition to ObamaCare, Cap and Trade, the Stimulus Bills are all opposed by the Majority of Americans, so why jam it down our throats?
As for Marxists or Communists, shall I make a list of those in the Administration who are, or have been associated with them? Van Jones admits to being a member of the CP-USA, several of his Czars are former SDS, Weather Underground, and other anti-social groups. Then there was Anita Dunn’s infamous speech to students when she says, “…two of my "favorite political philosophers" in a speech: Mother Teresa and... Mao Tse Tung, Dunn initially juxtaposes the two to make it a joke. "Not often coupled with each other," she says, to a few laughs, but then goes into a somewhat long history of Mao and Chiang Kai Shek in 1947 that's a little bit too bright, and a little too hagiographic. It suggests that she was in fact not joking that Mao is one of her favorite political philosophers.
I answer my critics with facts, nor do I believe any of my arguments are over-zealous drubbing or idiocy. Democrats shouted from the roof-tops when Bush’s Department of Homeland Security had permission to tap phone calls to suspected terrorists overseas. Now that it had been expanded to include Internet searches, emails, tracing cell phones and wiretapping all within our own borders, where is the outrage now? That my friend is much further than President Bush ever went with the DHS. It is imperative that we find the leak in the Pentagon regarding the hundreds of thousands of classified documents to Julian Assange, the ONLY good that has come of the leaks, was the proof that there were in fact WMDs in Iraq. Otherwise he (the one who leaked) should stand trial for Treason.
Patriot55 - You said "Fascist is what we are now heading for under Obama and the Progressives…Are you sure you know what the word means?"
It doesn't look like you know what the word means. Obama and the progressives are not heading us towards fascism. Bush might have been.
Here's the definition: "a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy. Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined extreme right-wing political views along with collectivism. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right"
You also said "Government mandating we purchase Health Care at more than twice the cost is unconstitutional and another freedom goes away. We needed Health Care reform; it could have been done with current insurance companies rather than an unsustainable completely new system, one that will continue to rise in spending."
You demonstrate a fundamental lack of knowledge about the healthcare bill here. The bill does not mandate you buy insurance at twice the cost. In fact most people can keep their current insurance.
Also the reform was in fact done with current insurance companies. They aren't going away. The system is not completely new at all.
Also estimates are that the bill will decrease the deficit.
Big bonus: Insurance companies can't drop you now when you get sick and people with pre-existing conditions can no buy insurance.
Most American’s want Government out of their lives
You're right, most Americans were against Bush's warrantless wiretaps, Patriot Act, legislating who people are allowed to marry, etc.
"since Obama has been in office, there are 11, 700 new regulations…utterly ridiculous by any standard."
To say that's ridiculous you'd need to first back that number up with evidence, see what the regulations are, and then compare it to recent past presidents. As is, it is meaningless.
"Look at what the EU are saying, they are cutting government spending and reforming pensions, as their economies are making progress, they are angry with the Obama Administration wondering why we are not doing the same."
This you made up entirely. Please link to the EU being angry with Obama for not cutting spending and reforming pensions.
Patriot55 - You said "Fascist is what we are now heading for under Obama and the Progressives…Are you sure you know what the word means?"
It doesn't look like you know what the word means. Obama and the progressives are not heading us towards fascism. Bush might have been.
Here's the definition: "a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy. Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined extreme right-wing political views along with collectivism. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right"
You also said "Government mandating we purchase Health Care at more than twice the cost is unconstitutional and another freedom goes away. We needed Health Care reform; it could have been done with current insurance companies rather than an unsustainable completely new system, one that will continue to rise in spending."
You demonstrate a fundamental lack of knowledge about the healthcare bill here. The bill does not mandate you buy insurance at twice the cost. In fact most people can keep their current insurance.
Also the reform was in fact done with current insurance companies. They aren't going away. The system is not completely new at all.
Also estimates are that the bill will decrease the deficit.
Big bonus: Insurance companies can't drop you now when you get sick and people with pre-existing conditions can no buy insurance.
Most American’s want Government out of their lives
You're right, most Americans were against Bush's warrantless wiretaps, Patriot Act, legislating who people are allowed to marry, etc.
"since Obama has been in office, there are 11, 700 new regulations…utterly ridiculous by any standard."
To say that's ridiculous you'd need to first back that number up with evidence, see what the regulations are, and then compare it to recent past presidents. As is, it is meaningless.
"Look at what the EU are saying, they are cutting government spending and reforming pensions, as their economies are making progress, they are angry with the Obama Administration wondering why we are not doing the same."
This you made up entirely. Please link to the EU being angry with Obama for not cutting spending and reforming pensions.
My reply to magistre from today is now gone, perhaps your double posting of the same post erased a very good post in which I also quoted the definition of fascism, and not yours from a wiki site, where most average people can insert their own ideals and definitions.
Great Briton, Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain are all doing better than the U.S. in their economies, one of the main reasons is cutting spending in half, while we increase ours. Almost every EU nation agreed at the G20 Summit to cut spending and implement austerity measures, at which Obama snubbed them for those measures. If you are not getting what the E.U. is doing, stop watching and reading State Run Media, they will not report such things which may damage their man-child.
Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator, or wanting to have complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, Media, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism. ObamaCare costs $3,100.00 dollars per year per employee to companies already providing insurance; most have determined the cost to too high and find it cheaper to pay the penalties. Those already announced to move away from Government Health Care are; Boeing, AT&T, Verizon, John Deere, Whole Foods Market, Marriott International, Qualcomm, and Wal-Mart with over 2 Million employees are considering doing the same. In the place of Government insurance, they are incentivizing their employees by giving them what they normally pay in monthly insurance premiums. The Fortune Company I have retired from has grandfathered the insurance we left upon retirement, we pay absolutely no co-pays on Doctor Visits, or on medications, the E.R. is completely free, and not to mention, 90-95% of all out of pocket medical expenses. Now they are cutting their on their benefits to what ObamaCare would cost. ObamaCare also mandates that if one does not wish to have insurance, they must buy equal to what the government recommends, or get on the government plans.
Liberals talk constantly about the “Rich Insurance Companies”, however the average Health Insurance Company only makes 2.2% profit, and these are CBO numbers from 1990 through 2008.
We also do not need Cap and Trade to further destroy more of American Industry (most of which is unionized), our air quality has improved over 400% since the 1970’s era. Do you actually believe China, Russia, and other developed nations will join the other counties in favor of similar pollution controls? NO, they will not, especially South America…Remember all those off-shore rigs Obama put a moratorium on (which cost us another 130,000 jobs), guess where many of them went? Many of those who moved are now drilling in deeper waters off the coast of Brazil.
You said in your post: “You're right, most Americans were against Bush's warrantless wiretaps, Patriot Act, legislating who people are allowed to marry, etc.”
*What you forgot to mention, is the fact that Obama now uses warrantless wiretaps ‘domestically’, follows your emails, tracks your cell phones. What is worse is, this never was a Congressional Bill and is now being fought in the Courts and will end up in the Supreme Court.
*The President does not have the authority to legislate, only Congress can write laws, so YOU now show me where Bush legislated which people are allowed to marry.
"since Obama has been in office, there are 11, 700 new regulations…utterly ridiculous by any standard."
“To say that's ridiculous you'd need to first back that number up with evidence, see what the regulations are, and then compare it to recent past presidents. As is, it is meaningless.”
**The numbers come from the FOIA and your proof otherwise is what?
What really frightens me? I believe you Liberal/Progressives believe in what you hear without any real facts.
Patriot55 - You said "Great Briton, Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain are all doing better than the U.S. in their economies, one of the main reasons is cutting spending in half, while we increase ours. Almost every EU nation agreed at the G20 Summit to cut spending and implement austerity measures, at which Obama snubbed them for those measures."
Your own link disagrees with you.
Your link says "They left room for countries to move at their own pace and adopt "differentiated and tailored" policies that match national economic or political priorities, a sharp reversal from the unity of the previous three crisis-era G20 summits.
The G20, which includes emerging economic powers as well as the developed economies where the economic trouble started, united last year to throw trillions of dollars into the battle against recession.
But that unity has begun to fray as countries emerge from crisis at different speeds and with different policy needs. Emerging Asian economies such as China have come roaring back, while the US recovery remains tepid and Europe lags behind."
So in summary your links says Europe lags behind, each country is tailoring their solution, and all agreed stimulating the economy was necessary last year. I love it when people prove themselves wrong.
"Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator, or wanting to have complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, Media, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism."
That doesn't resemble what we are doing now. Closer to what Bush was doing. Fascism is after all a right wing thing.
"ObamaCare costs $3,100.00 dollars per year per employee to companies already providing insurance; most have determined the cost to too high and find it cheaper to pay the penalties."
"We also do not need Cap and Trade to further destroy more of American Industry"
Sure we do. We need to further minimize pollution while creating a larger market for alternative energy and efficiency.
"*What you forgot to mention, is the fact that Obama now uses warrantless wiretaps ‘domestically’, follows your emails, tracks your cell phones."
So we can assume you were horrified when Bush started all this right?
"The President does not have the authority to legislate, only Congress can write laws, so YOU now show me where Bush legislated which people are allowed to marry."
"Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator, or wanting to have complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, Media, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism."
That doesn't resemble what we are doing now. Closer to what Bush was doing. Fascism is after all a right wing thing. My above definition of Fascism comes from several dictionaries, including a definition from the Library of Congress.
Fascism is NOT always a ‘right wing’ “thing”. This is nothing more than academia changing history, and trying to pound into the minds of our youth for many years, that Hitler was also Right Wing, nothing can be further from the truth. Hitler took his cues from Joseph Stalin, they were in constant communications discussing the pros of Communism for several years, till Hitler became paranoid that Stalin might try and take Germany.
The Right does not believe in Nationalism, Hitler did: http://www.germanculture.com.ua/library/history/bl_hitler_rise_of_nazi.htm
Wrong. Please come up to speed on the actual facts of the healthcare bill.
In Harry Reid’s on words, dated Octber 28, 2010, instead you using an out of date slanted unreliable CNN, especially an article dated 10 months old, have a look at this:
"We also do not need Cap and Trade to further destroy more of American Industry"
Sure we do. We need to further minimize pollution while creating a larger market for alternative energy and efficiency.
You really should do something about the brainwashing you have been through, pollution un the U.S. have decreased by about 60% over this 30 year period, ending in 2008…From the Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics, backed up by NOAA and may Universities, even the CRU has stated it intentionally use fabricated data.
"*What you forgot to mention, is the fact that Obama now uses warrantless wiretaps ‘domestically’, follows your emails, tracks your cell phones."
So we can assume you were horrified when Bush started all this right?
Bush was ONLY doing International to domestic taps, I am quite happy with the results the Bush DHS accomplished, however…Obama is doing it domestic to domestic as well, a far cry from what he more savvy Bush was doing.
Obama can claim some minor victories in stopping Islamic Terror, but only by luck, The Christmas Day Bomber tried and failed. The Times Square Bomber failed due to malfunction in the detonation process.
The Untied States Border Patrol has proof that 1 in 50 illegal’s crossing our border are Islam extremists, so good idea allowing them to come in unabated.
To the call for banning same-sex marriages, I fully agree with that notion. I have several Gay friends who also disagree with same-sex marriage. What is the use if they cannot procreate the species, even you buddy, Darwin agreed with that synopsis.
Finally, I paid for the FOIA act documents, if you wish me to share them, send me a check for all the ones I requested in the amount of $65.00.
A lot of disinformation here. While there was discourse between Hitler and Stalin it only lasted until the Germans invaded Russia. And as far as getting funding and orders those were supplied to him by Prescott Bush, head of the U.S. branch of the German Bank. Bush was indicted under the Enemies and Sedition Act in 1943. He was perfectly willing to supply Hitler for his bosses who were identified by General Smedley Butler when they tried to "over-throw" F.D.R. in the 30's. Fascism isn't so much a way of acting as it is a way of thinking(or not thinking).
Prescott Bush deserved what he did, if in fact the evidence was actually true, as we have seen from many trials (especially those by our corrupt Att. General Holder), then so be it…However someone needed to get FDR out of office, regardless of who it was. Unfortunately he died before the trials could begin. He extended the Great Depression by 10 years, and would have been longer had Japan not committed war against the U.S., in which he told William Leahy, chief of staff, ‘Damn, this is going to destroy my completion of socializing the country”.
Obama’s contributions to Hezbollah and Hamas, plus Obama’s animus against Israel (which caused 68% of American Jews crossed over from the Democrats to Republicans).
Then Obama and Columbia U. were found guilty of the CIA Columbia University Sedition and Treason, citizens trials are heard by accredited Judges and Jurors.
It sets up a series of Federal Trials once out of office, along with many other counts to be added, they will also include Eric Holder and so many others.
All we true Constitutional Americans want is to keep Government out of our lives, as intended, we believe in a small government for the people and by the people. Our Government, including both Houses was never meant to have lifetime very high salaries and lifetime benefits. No one with the exception of the President should make more than $75,000 per year, and the same insurance we the people have access to!!
NO IMMIGRANTS should receive citizenship without going through proper channels, just as our forefathers came here. Sanctuary Cities are illegal and cost a great deal of money, illegal immigrant criminals should be held and tried and not let out of jail/prisons back into our population.
Stop Federal Judges from legislating law from the bench, it is not in their job description, put a stop to the attempts at globalism and global currency, dismantle and withdraw from the corrupt U.N. Hold journalists to previous standards, no less than two “reliable sources” before filing any news item.
Stop the Czars, they by law are not supposed to have any power other than being a temporary advisor to the President, and to be replaced by appointments who go through Congressional hearings. Stop teachers from teaching anything other than a ‘normal’ curriculum, de-unionize teachers and stop Tenure.
Start doing things in government according to the law and constitution, period.
Richard D. Wolff (born April 1942, Youngstown, Ohio) is an American economist, well-known for his work on Marxian economics, economic methodology and class analysis. *Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._Wolff
William Rivers Pitt: *Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x568366
I looked at the advisers, writers, staff, they are all left leaning, the two above are just a couple of the many I looked up. The site claims to have no bias, will they say anything?
Thanks for pointing out the site, I know to avoid it in the future, with the exception of using it to discredit the stories.
There was a show on Genetics on the Discovery Channel, (NOT KIDDING) found a gene in the Liberal Progressives, although they consider it to be an abnormal gene and have found a way to correct the dysfunctioning gene. (Modern Marvels)
To Patriot! A defective gene? Are you high? The GOP are the ones with the mental problems. Sociopaths. They don't care about anyone but themselves. Look "Liberal" up in the dictionary. "Open minded". I was raised that way and raised my children that way. You pick and choose your facts. In TruthOut - that was an opinion about bushtard. If the GOP would only know how much respect they would get if they came out an admitted what a failure he was. And you obviously didn't read a lot when visiting TruthOut. There are just as many conservative articles. Again, quit picking and choosing!
@JoyFullOne, why do you believe only one side can be correct? And, no…I do not use drugs, don’t need anything but reality. My now grown children are constantly complimented for their decorum, their charity, work ethic, and honesty. Liberal from the dictionary is politics is ‘not’ what the description in this administration now means. I am a Conservative Libertarian; I enjoy watching the ex-Consumer Activist turned Libertarian John Stossle, and his stories on how he had been duped all those years at ABC.
Not only am I an avid reader (5-6 books per month…I do speed, but not so fast as to miss anything), also have every World Almanac since 1970…Interesting when you go back and look at our spending, housing, wages, taxes and so on…But I really did enjoy the Federalist Papers, The Road to Serfdom (A.J. Heyak), “The Coming Insurrection”, Soros’s “The Shadow Government” and so many more, but my first love is History, not what is now being taught in schools and Universities, actual history.
Other than my military service in the Marines, I worked 17 years of my 37 overseas, six years in the Libyan Sarah, lived, worked and visited 60 of the 103 countries where we have international locations. I spent 8 months in a Libyan Prison, while on the 2,000 mile trip from the desert to Tripoli (volunteered for the trip for a chance to get home a week early), stopped for fuel in Sidra and witnessed an auto accident on the coastal highway. Was asked if I would tell the police what I saw, and quickly agreed. Only to be taken into a dank room, although I had all my proper papers (including my Libyan Drivers License), was accused of being an Interpol Spy. The prison cell in Sidra only had dirt floor, no bed, no toilet, I was beaten and tortured most every day with the exception of being chained to a steel chair in the hole. I had been water-boarded in military training, so that was nothing when they tried. There were many beatings, electrical torture, toenails and fingernails pulled out, teeth slowly pulled out, broken nose and jaw, several ribs, too much to list.
It was decided I would hang in Green Square in Tripoli, in front of Gadhafi’s palace; it was on my way to the Tripoli prison till the hanging, when I was rescued and smuggled to Malta, where I healed enough to get to England (where I held dual citizenship) I was accepted into the E.R. as a British citizen. A Medical advisor came to my multi-bed room only to be told they could reset a few bones, but the surgeries I needed were too expensive, so with still broken bones and ribs, I was able to get a bottle of Oxycontin and made my way home, an ambulance was waiting for me at the international terminal, and was critical by the time they got me to the hospital.
Part 2: I had a good and decent Arab lawyer who was able to get me back into the country and meet with Gadhafi and allowed to work there again ( 1-1/2 years later). Just a little history, I had received permission from the Bush State Department to write publish my book in December 2008, however after it was finished, I received a call from Hillary’s State Department that they needed to read the manuscript before allowing it to go to the publisher. I was denied, they checked my footnotes to their authenticity with Libya, Egypt, and Malta, and told me it was too sensitive at this point, last week I tried again, and still denied. I may just publish anyway, what are they going to do to me, put me in jail? I had already had to pay back the advance, but they still want to publish.
To this day I have many Muslim friends from several countries and here in the U.S., as I already knew from history, they agree the Mosque at Ground Zero is indeed a Victory Mosque.
As for Obama this past week at the G-20, he was put down, shut down, and criticized for once again trying to devalue the dollar. Why does he keep trying to print currency, has he still not realized you cannot SPEND your way out of a bad economy, is he that dense? Personally, I do not believe he has a clue.
I do not understand your “hatred” for President Bush, seeing him on television again, and having already read his book. He gave us a great economy, unemployment for most of his term under 5%, it only became a big problem after the liberals took over in 2007 and 2008,with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd ruining the housing market. Which caused the mortgage crisis, and Bush got TARP in September 2008, it was to LOAN money to stabilize banks and mortgage companies, and GM. At least Bush was a good honest man, unlike the mistruths and blame game obama plays.
To Jeanie, Good point on the religious thing. It shouldn't be brought up in politics. It is a personal thing, who and when we worship. But as for this President dividing our country, you got that wrong. The media is. The media wasn't this way during bushtards term. If anyone questioned him, they were unpatriotic. Shame on the media. And shame on anyone who falls for that crap.
JoyFulOne, Personally I am missing the comment to a “Jeanie” and Bob hasn’t posted since October 28th. However I do agree that (and you have not seen me do it) is keeping Religion out of Political discussions, although it is inescapable if one is talking about our Founders, The Bill of Rights, or the Constitution of the United States of America. But I will venture into one question regarding religion and politics in a question, have YOU read the Qur’an (as most Americans spell it Koran)? “Shall a believer come across a man of another faith, and not willing to openly commit to embrace Islam; ye shall own him at your behest or kill him if he does not obey.”
After the Democrats took control of Congress in 2007, the Mainstream Media ripped Bush a new one, they ripped him at every turn during the wars. Although even the biggest Bush malcontent ever, Paul Krugman once quipped, “If the man wasn’t so damned honest, I would like nothing more than to wrap my hands around his throat.” It has been since 2008, the Media will not report honestly about Obama, he has them in the palm of his hand.
As for Obama, he has Czars (34 still there), they are only used till a position is filled, the time line for a so-called Czar is supposed to be two to four months, but he knew even Democrats would not vote them into office, so he has kept them and given them powers the constitution prohibits. He has more Czars than Russia beginning with Ivan III in 1462, Vasili III till 1533, Ivan IV (Ivan the Terrible) till Nicholas II 11868-1918.
You people are ridiculous! What on earth are you doing sitting here and talking and bashing each others opinions of politics! Do you honestly expect to change someone's views this way? {honestly...} All your doing is helping divide this nation into 2 parties even more than it already is. The party system is the most corrupt system in America and should be abolished. Shame on you for putting down our president and congress. Shame on you for telling everyone how to do their job. Shame on you America for not respecting those who lead.
Grow up and get involved. Talk to people with an open mind. If you are so convinced that your way is right then listen to those with opposing views. You will learn something.
Frankly my political view points are void at this point. I hate the media, next to the party system they don't know honest when it is in front of their faces. They have been given the ability to change everything however they see fit. To rely on the media read multiple source with varying view points...ie a conservative, a liberal and a neutral media source. What good is it to only read from conservative sources? {or liberal}
Before you respond think about your news sources. How many varying sources do you read? How often? Do YOU seek truth in these stories or do you take them at their word?
bushtard had CZARS too, but no one talked about them. As for religion, it has nothing to do with the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. It was a US Supreme Court decision.
Oh, and I don't know who blogged it, but the so called NY mosque is not a mosque and all. It is a community center. See how the main stream media brainwashes?
One last thing. And it cracks me up. After the bushtard years, no one claims to be a Republican anymore. All the sudden there are Conservatives and Teabaggers, etc.
No, no, this is the last thing. The Dems didn't take control in 2006. There were 49 Dem, 49 Rep, and 2 Independents. From 2006 to 2008, Congress was lame duck, big time.
Yes, yes, Bush, Clinton, and hell most Presidents have one to three until an appointment can be made, none of the past Presidents kept them more than four months, and filled the positions through Congressional hearings as a President should. Presidential Czars are “short term only” and cannot make or dictate/enforce policy, period!! They can only advise to the president or to the other departments in the ‘Existing Government’.
From the Declaration of Independence: IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.” “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” The Ground Zero Community Center “Shall have a Mosque atop the buildings highest floor” As for the Term “Teabaggers” is an obscene, homosexual act, many ‘News Readers’ and reporters have been told NOT to use the term, and to apologize had they done so, the exception is MSNBC and the Ed Show on CNN (where one can express their trash talk). The first time I heard about the act, I had to look it up on the internet…I suppose they have personal knowledge of it on MSNBC. Regarding your incorrect statement on the Senate being 49-49, do not forget that the independents caucus with the Democrats, thus 51-49, and Congress was NOT lame duck, Democrats held all committee positions during the years 2007 and 2008, w/Barney Frank being the Chairman of the House Ways and Means committee, a.k.a Freddie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the mortgage banks!
Yes, yes, Bush, Clinton, and hell most Presidents have one to three until an appointment can be made, none of the past Presidents kept them more than four months, and filled the positions through Congressional hearings as a President should. Presidential Czars are “short term only” and cannot make or dictate/enforce policy, period!! They can only advise to the president or to the other departments in the ‘Existing Government’.
From the Declaration of Independence: IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.” “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” The Ground Zero Community Center “Shall have a Mosque atop the buildings highest floor” As for the Term “Teabaggers” is an obscene, homosexual act, many ‘News Readers’ and reporters have been told NOT to use the term, and to apologize had they done so, the exception is MSNBC and the Ed Show on CNN (where one can express their trash talk). The first time I heard about the act, I had to look it up on the internet…I suppose they have personal knowledge of it on MSNBC. Regarding your incorrect statement on the Senate being 49-49, do not forget that the independents caucus with the Democrats, thus 51-49, and Congress was NOT lame duck, Democrats held all committee positions during the years 2007 and 2008, w/Barney Frank being the Chairman of the House Ways and Means committee, a.k.a Freddie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the mortgage banks!
To Patriot! Yes, we do exactly that. We either vote for or against a person in our towns, in our states, and in our federal government. No Czar can make law, they are advisors to the President.
To Patriot! Yes, we do exactly that. We either vote for or against a person in our towns, in our states, and in our federal government. No Czar can make law, they are advisors to the President.
And I remember very well when bush lied to Congress and to the American people, straight faced, about Iraq having WMD. I know it was BS the minute I heard about it because I knew the history of Bush Sr. and his relationship with Iraq. I also remember very clearly that if anyone in the media questioned that decision, they were called un-patriotic. Remember it like it was yesterday.
To: Patriotic. The 2006-2008 was the lamest Congress in my 51 year lifetime. The 2 biggest bills that passed during that time were the minimum wage bill and the Lilly Leddbetter bill. The ONLY reason the GOP voted for a minimum wage hike was they were sucking hind teat! If it was up to them, everyone would still be making $0.50 an hour. I am a C-Span junkie and watched it very closely during that time.
@JoyFulOne…You completely missed the point I was making, the Declaration of Independence clearly states that our Rights come from God, and I love this phrase:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their ‘Creator’ with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
As for WMD’s, Congress reviewed all Intel, U.S. and aboard (U.K., Mossad, Saudis, France…ect…) and **43** Democrats voted for the war in Iraq, plus the majority of Democrats in the Senate. The ONLY ILLEGAL WAR we have been in was Clinton going into Somalia without the consent of Congress; remember the phrase “Wag the Dog”???
According to the Wiki-Leaks documents, they did indeed find WMD’s in Iraq (Tons of banned Chemical Weapons) including many traces of Yellow Cake Uranium, there were sent to Syria to avoid detection. Russia helped the Syrians build a Nuclear Weapons plant, which the Israelis took out with their F-16’s and Bunker Buster Bombs.
I too watch both C-Span channels, even record many on DVR if I cannot be around for live viewing. Since Obamunist took over, it has been sickening, no discussions allowed by Democrats on any Bill, no one knowing what were in most of the Bills passed. When asked about ObamaCare, Pelosi even said on television, “You will need to read the Bill to know what’s in it…” When asked had she read it, she replied that she had not gotten around to reading it yet!!!
If you wish to have a debate/discussion, you need to reply to comments, young lady.
The WORST Congress in history got their butts kicked out of office this year.
JoyFulOne, You're going to disturb PatriotSS with all this reality. He's a mental fascist and insists that "reality" is his to define and since he begins each discourse with the assertion: "I'm always right and because you challenge my world-view you admit that not only are you wrong but your also a Commie,lying,rat-bastard,etc". You'll never dissuade mental fascists from their frantically held beliefs.
Very well said Magistre. Patriot might be a selective history buff, but he is not living in the real world. Actually that is the main problem with the GOP. They are living in the past and keep trying to stay there. Does anyone out there think that our Founding Fathers would every believe that they would look up in the sky and see a skyscraper or an airplane and then one day a terrorist would fly the plane into the skyscraper? Do you think that would have envisioned money changing hands at a key stroke. The answer is no. This is 2010 guys.
Yes, 43 Democrats voted for invading Iraq. AFTER THEY WERE LIED TOO! After 9.11 many people would have believed anything. We were full of fear and anger and bushtard and cheney, (you know they guys, the war criminals and mass murderers), played on our fears and anger. We might as well sent a gold embossed invitation to the world to invade us if they think we have WMD's. Irag was not then, nor are they now a threat to the United States. We ONLY go to war to defend our freedom. I support our troops, but they did NOT die for our country. It just feels good saying it!
The Democrats did NOT get their butts kicked in Congress young man, they still control the Senate. And the people the voted for Republicans in the House have short term memories. They just handed back the keys to the same idiots that drove us in to this near depression. They are Fox News Zombies and they believe that since the unemployment rate is still at ten percent it is the Dems fault. Took 8 long nightmarish years to get us in to the CF, its going to take more than 2 years to get us out. Again, if you look back in history, the economy and stock market has always done better under Democrat rule. And find some new material. I am old enough to know that every time a Democrat is in the White House, there is talk of Socialism. Biggest joke in politics.
Young man”, thanks but I doubt you are older than I. Somehow I doubt that you remember the execution of the Korean War, or when Kennedy failed to support the guaranteed U.S. assistance to support Cubans to oust Castro, which started the 13 days of October. He did not even let them know the support was not coming, and allowed tens of thousands to die. I was in favor of him trying to pull our soldiers out of Vietnam, and driving to Dallas just to get to see him in person, only to see him assassinated. Yes, I was a Democrat…that changed under Carter.
You and magisre (Maoists) can call me names all day long, only Liberals are correct, huh? The 43 Democrats in the Senate (and many more in Congress also voted for the war in Iraq). NEWS FLASH, WMDs are NOT ONLY NUKEs. Saddam killed 400,000 of his own people to test poison gas, of which our troops found tons, literally. Yeah, according to Left Wing-nut news pundits tell us that obama is just too intelligent for us to understand, that my friend is a pant-load of crap. He even lied about being a Professor at Harvard, look it up. He also lied about being at Columbia University; he was never there as Columbia testified under oath. There are now ongoing investigations into why Columbia U. faked his classes, and his fake diploma from there.
As for magistre’s comment: “JoyFulOne, You're going to disturb PatriotSS with all this reality. He's a mental fascist and insists that "reality" is his to define and since he begins each discourse with the assertion: "I'm always right and because you challenge my world-view you admit that not only are you wrong but your also a Commie,lying,rat-bastard,etc". You'll never dissuade mental fascists from their frantically held beliefs.”
But there was one true statement in your comment: “You'll never dissuade mental fascists from their frantically held beliefs.”…namely you and your kind. can be counted on to use foul language and slanderous comments, you have become the Keith Olbermann of the internet. “All trash talk, all the time.” What branches of the Military were you a part of…didn’t enlist did you!!!
How many times do I have to say it. The Democrats, Republicans, Independents were LIED to in order for bushtard/cheney to invade Iraq. That was the most needless war in my lifetime and my children's and grandchildren's. Don't blame ANYONE for that CF. bushtard/cheney played on our anger and fears. Read the 9/11 Commission Report. When you have to change the excuse for invading a country 3 times, makes one want to scratch his ass. Mission Accomplished? Remember that? God, for anyone on God's green earth to defend that war criminal and mass murderer belong in general population at their nearest prison.
JoyFulOne, I knew your age was 51...you mentioned it an earlier post, oh did you forget? What else have you forgotten regarding your stubborn points. Stop getting your news from MediaMatters, Huffington Post, Daily Kos, which are about as honest as the so-called Mainstream Media. Yes I am somewhat your elder.
I am quite old enough to receive SSI, Medicare, and Medicare Part D, but never filed. I was automatically sent a Social Security Check, I sent it back with a note to keep the people's money...I don't give a damn how many years I paid into those "Welfare Funds which keep getting robbed by the Government".
I have better Insurance than the Government could ever provide for me, my company took care of that after retirement for life (a Non-Union Corporation).
JoyFulOne said; "How many times do I have to say it. The Democrats, Republicans, Independents were LIED to in order for bushtard/cheney to invade Iraq." Ya think so??? Then you are calling the 9/11 commision LIARS!
magistre, not sure if that is your given surname, however it keeps coming up with a strange description:
هو اسم ابنة الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم و هو بمعنى الأرتقاء و السمو و هو بمعنى اخر فتاة راقية من عائلة ملكية راقية
I refuse to respond to any of your requests until you get my moniker correct, on top of that, you have yet to prove or source anything you have said, period. Nor have you answered any of my direct questions or have yet to disprove anything I have said.
Back to JoyFulOne’s November 18 2010 2:55pm “To: Patriotic. The 2006-2008 was the lamest Congress in my 51 year lifetime. There is NO such word as “Lamest”, or is that now part of Orwell’s New Speak, along with Quantitative Easing as a way to the Fed will print money we do not have and cause the devaluation of the dollar; War on Terror is now called ‘Overseas Contingency Operation’, or Man-Caused Disaster; It is no longer called “Global Warning” but now ‘Global Climate Change’’ only because “Anthropogenic Global Warming” did not work… Undocumented People/Worker, took the place of Illegal Alien; “Employee Free Choice Act” is now ‘Force Unionism’; “The Internet Freedom Preservation Act” is anything but freedom; “Militant, right-wing” now means ‘anyone who is not a Liberal or votes Republican’; The term "growth friendly deficit reduction" can only be the sugar-coated newspeak phrase for ‘Tax Increases’, Ideas, targeted-- Early 2010, many Americans discovered that Stimulus was another word for ‘Pork-Barrel Spending’
Hell, I could fill this page with all the new-speak to confuse normal Americans, but we continue to educate the populous. I would be hard pressed to leave this jewel out:
Community organizer-- a person who tries to circumvent the democratic election process to gain power. To quote Saul Alinsky: "Power and organization are one and the same". Usually a person who is incapable of leading a life of productivity and who tries to make people support his lifestyle by giving them the warm and fuzzy feeling of community. Closely related to the labor union leader.
Call it what you want. From 2006 to 2008 no major legislation was passed. A bunch of Post Offices were named if that is important to you. To say that the Democrats had a majority in Congress during that time is a joke. bush got writer's cramp vetoing everything that crossed his desk. Again, please don't defend bush, I would have so much more respect for you.
Let us see, Patriot55, for your arguments you use your own opinion as fact. You automatically slander any one you disagree with. Why should anyone take you seriously? When you grow up then we will treat you as a grown up.
magistre said... JoyFulOne, You're going to disturb PatriotSS with all this reality. He's a mental fascist and insists that "reality" is his to define and since he begins each discourse with the assertion: "I'm always right and because you challenge my world-view you admit that not only are you wrong but your also a Commie,lying,rat-bastard,etc". You'll never dissuade mental fascists from their frantically held beliefs.
November 19, 2010 12:34 PM
You call me a person who slanders, find fine my commcnets as I did yours above.
Does your mother know you are on her computer? Oh, and I forgot you do not speak Arabic, sorry…
Oh…I guess I could come back with some silly quips such as, “What color is the sky in your world today” but what I would really enjoy is to invite you to dinner and set down to a nice meal and have a pleasant discussion, what do you say, to a face to face meeting of the minds.
I have been emailing comments from you and JoyLessOne, not using your I.D.’s or which site we are on, but both my Democratic and Republican friends are have a grand ole laugh, as my British friend said, “Is he completely mental?”.
Patriot55 - You said "have YOU read the Qur’an (as most Americans spell it Koran)? “Shall a believer come across a man of another faith, and not willing to openly commit to embrace Islam; ye shall own him at your behest or kill him if he does not obey.”
You should try reading the bible sometime. All sort of crazy violent hateful stuff in these old religious books.
Your comment to Patriot that starts with - "Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator...hit the nail on the head. I have said it more than once that Patriot has a selective memory. He is living in the past, (the 30's and 40's), and thinks things should be the same. Our founding Fathers, in their wildest dreams could have envisioned the world we live in today. Back than a hand shake was a contract and the only things that flew in the sky were birds. And I don't think that they would have thought that planes would be used as bombs. As for healthcare, the doctor come and visit you at home when you were sick and delivered babies at home. They didn't then bill the patience insurance company for the costs. So, Patriot, catch up with what is happening in this century. The world changes and we have to change with it! God Speed!
joemama, why do you answer a question with a question? Of course I have read the Holy Bible, and especially enjoyed The Book of Daniel, Psalms, and Revelations. You still do not answer questions posed to you, not 'just' that one. I have also read the Torah, whether or not you believe in a higher being, our countries laws and morals came from the Holy Bible, like it or not.
JoyFulOne, I do not care to live in the past, 2004-2006pp (Pre Pelosi) would be just fine with me!
However, no one will want to live in what's coming if we cannot get spending under control. Most of the new programs coming out of Congress the past two years have broken our backs and loss of jobs. I DO NOT believe in a One World...ANYTHING, not economy, not government (a.k.a. the U.N., in fact we should do away with the U.N.), not a One World Bank.
No Joy, I live in the present and always have, however I do not like what I see coming as well as most people who take the time to RESEARCH so-called government facts, you sure as hell will not find the truth in the Media, or from Hard Left Liberals/Progressives. Most Americans do not believe in Illegal Immigration, including those from Mexico who earned their Citizenship.
You could sign up with LexisNexis for ALL information, including what is really going on in our government, or learn to find, read, and cross reference the personate Bills and laws being imposed on us without American approval.
I do not believe in Keynesian economics, no economy in history have spent their way out of economic problems, which is precisely why the Great Depression lasted 10 longer than it should have, thanks Presidents Wilson and FDR!! I do nevertheless believe in Austerity and removing power from the Unions, if not elimination.
Patriot55- You said "Of course I have read the Holy Bible, and especially enjoyed The Book of Daniel, Psalms, and Revelations."
Then of course you should be familiar with all the violent, hateful, and intolerant things that are in the Bible...right? You made it seem like you were only aware of this in the Quran and not other ancient religious texts.
You normally post reasonably respectful and intelligent things, which is why I am surprised you quoted that "Bible: Intolerance" link. You might as well have a citation to the National Enquirer Magazine.
I haven't personally read or studied the Qur’an, so I'm not going to comment or take sides. Nor am I defending Patriot55. However, when junk is cited, it should be called out. I'm not going to do a point-by-point evaluation, but it's simple enough to just tackle the first few examples.
On the face of it, I think the issue is that (and maybe I'm wrong here) Patriot55 is suggesting the Qur’an encourages or approves of violent, hateful, or intolerant things. In return, you point out how the Bible discusses violent, hateful, or intolerance.
It's important to point out, assuming you have not studied this before, that Christianity consists of both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The New Testament invokes a new covenant, which pretty much invalidates much of the prior covenant mentioned in the New Testament. So, cherry picking quotes from the Old Testament, though easy, is a lazy way to take things out of context and paint an invalid picture of Christianity.
To give an example... in the past of the United States, slavery was accepted by many. Today, slavery is not accepted. There's no point in picking up a history book to try to prove how corrupt the United States is today when anyone would know that it's all in the past.
Furthermore, if the publisher of a history book talks about a particular genocide, it does not mean the publisher is approving of the event, but merely reporting on it.
So, looking at one example from the link you cited:
"An uncircumcised boy is to be abandoned by his parents and community"
At the time, the covenant required circumcision. This was replaced with Baptism. At the time circumcision was required, to deny circumcising a boy meant the decision to not enter into the covenant with God on behalf of the boy. So, it was the parent's decision to separate the child from the Christian community. Of course, when the child was old enough, he could choose to become circumcised to enter into the covenant, therefore returning to the Christian community.
This wasn't about ditching a child on the side of the road because he happened to not be circumcised. It was painting a picture of what circumcision meant to the covenant at that time. Of course, once the new covenant replaced circumcision with Baptism, this became a moot point, so it is merely historical record at this point.
Every instance from the link you cited is simply a matter of taking the information out of context.
Imagine if one were to criticize a newspaper for reporting that there were many deaths in a war.
Or, imagine if one were to criticize a physics book for saying that if you were to walk off a tall cliff, you'd die at the bottom.
One is simply reporting on a historical event, not approving of it. The other is matter-of-factly indicating the consequences of a particular action, according to the rules that exist in the universe.
There's little use in calling gravity a murderer or saying that newspapers cause wars.
Once the historically recorded information is eliminated... and the action/consequence declarations are removed... you're still left with information that is taken out of context, or information which is no longer relevant due to additional information in the Bible. The Bible must be considered in whole, not merely a convenient snippet taken out of context.
So, again, since I have not read the Qur’an, I can't comment specifically. So, I can only assume that it encourages Muslims to love their neighbors and to love their enemies (as the Bible does so) and discourages violence against either. If that's the case, then clearly Patriot55 may also be taking quotes out of context to further his agenda.
You normally post reasonably respectful and intelligent things, which is why I am surprised you quoted that "Bible: Intolerance" link. You might as well have a citation to the National Enquirer Magazine.
I haven't personally read or studied the Qur’an, so I'm not going to comment or take sides. Nor am I defending Patriot55. However, when junk is cited, it should be called out. I'm not going to do a point-by-point evaluation, but it's simple enough to just tackle the first few examples.
On the face of it, I think the issue is that (and maybe I'm wrong here) Patriot55 is suggesting the Qur’an encourages or approves of violent, hateful, or intolerant things. In return, you point out how the Bible discusses violent, hateful, or intolerance.
It's important to point out, assuming you have not studied this before, that Christianity consists of both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The New Testament invokes a new covenant, which pretty much invalidates much of the prior covenant mentioned in the New Testament. So, cherry picking quotes from the Old Testament, though easy, is a lazy way to take things out of context and paint an invalid picture of Christianity.
To give an example... in the past of the United States, slavery was accepted by many. Today, slavery is not accepted. There's no point in picking up a history book to try to prove how corrupt the United States is today when anyone would know that it's all in the past.
Furthermore, if the publisher of a history book talks about a particular genocide, it does not mean the publisher is approving of the event, but merely reporting on it.
So, looking at one example from the link you cited:
"An uncircumcised boy is to be abandoned by his parents and community"
At the time, the covenant required circumcision. This was replaced with Baptism. At the time circumcision was required, to deny circumcising a boy meant the decision to not enter into the covenant with God on behalf of the boy. So, it was the parent's decision to separate the child from the Christian community. Of course, when the child was old enough, he could choose to become circumcised to enter into the covenant, therefore returning to the Christian community.
This wasn't about ditching a child on the side of the road because he happened to not be circumcised. It was painting a picture of what circumcision meant to the covenant at that time. Of course, once the new covenant replaced circumcision with Baptism, this became a moot point, so it is merely historical record at this point.
Every instance from the link you cited is simply a matter of taking the information out of context.
Imagine if one were to criticize a newspaper for reporting that there were many deaths in a war.
Or, imagine if one were to criticize a physics book for saying that if you were to walk off a tall cliff, you'd die at the bottom.
One is simply reporting on a historical event, not approving of it. The other is matter-of-factly indicating the consequences of a particular action, according to the rules that exist in the universe.
There's little use in calling gravity a murderer or saying that newspapers cause wars.
Once the historically recorded information is eliminated... and the action/consequence declarations are removed... you're still left with information that is taken out of context, or information which is no longer relevant due to additional information in the Bible. The Bible must be considered in whole, not merely a convenient snippet taken out of context.
So, again, since I have not read the Qur’an, I can't comment specifically. So, I can only assume that it encourages Muslims to love their neighbors and to love their enemies (as the Bible does so) and discourages violence against either. If that's the case, then clearly Patriot55 may also be taking quotes out of context to further his agenda.
Bob, it is so refreshing to read an intelligent person on these pages. There are so many that distill their missives to name calling and vitriolic. Their only "argument style: is pre-attributing positions to whoever they attack. Once again, my compliments.
Bob - You said "You might as well have a citation to the National Enquirer Magazine."
The link cites all the actual Bible quotes. Everything is cited and linked to. You may not agree with some of the opinions but that's a different matter.
"It's important to point out, assuming you have not studied this before, that Christianity consists of both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The New Testament invokes a new covenant, which pretty much invalidates much of the prior covenant mentioned in the New Testament. So, cherry picking quotes from the Old Testament, though easy, is a lazy way to take things out of context and paint an invalid picture of Christianity.
Of course I've studied these things. I believe you're painting an invalid picture if you don't think many Christian sects don't still teach from the Old Testament. I definitely know that Catholic churches still do.
I don't buy this "Don't look at the Old Testament. God used to be crazy but reformed" crap.
Jesus himself validated the Old Testament several times.
By the way the link I gave before has easy ways to filter by Intolerance-> New Testament if you like those examples better.
Here's one of the first:
10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Bob, it is so refreshing to read an intelligent person on these pages. There are so many that distill their missives to name calling and vitriolic. Their only "argument style": is pre-attributing positions to whoever they attack. Once again, my compliments.
"The link cites all the actual Bible quotes. Everything is cited and linked to."
Just as the National Enquirer includes truths, then twists these around for the sake of entertainment.
"You may not agree with some of the opinions but that's a different matter."
It's not a different matter. It's the very matter I was speaking of. I value the opinions of the link you cited about as much as I value the opinions of a magazine which talks about bat boys and Elvis sightings.
"Of course I've studied these things. I believe you're painting an invalid picture if you don't think many Christian sects don't still teach from the Old Testament. I definitely know that Catholic churches still do."
I agree with you. Not all sects of Christianity can be right. Of course, if you find the elements they all agree on, you will be better enlightened than simply focusing on the select areas they disagree on. I'm sure the same holds true for Muslims. Half a dozen Muslims crash some planes and suddenly all Muslims are held accountable. I do not agree with this. Likewise, cherry picking different sects of Christianity to prove that all of Christianity encourages violence and hatred is missing the point entirely.
"I don't buy this 'Don't look at the Old Testament. God used to be crazy but reformed' crap."
I don't buy it either. God wasn't crazy.
If someone you loved fell from a cliff and died, would you curse gravity, call gravity crazy, then disbelieve gravity because it causes too many problems? I don't exactly agree with your way of thinking. I follow it, but don't agree with it.
"Jesus himself validated the Old Testament several times."
As He should. The entirety of the Bible is important. However, you can't read about circumcision in the Old Testament, then say "see, it says it is required!" You'd be ignoring the New Testament. Of course, you also can't just read about Jesus in the New Testament and say, "See? God doesn't exist anymore. Now it's this Jesus fella'." Understanding of the Old Testament is required to understand the significance of Jesus and to know the love God has for us.
"By the way the link I gave before has easy ways to filter by Intolerance-> New Testament if you like those examples better."
I'm pretty sure the National Enquirer has a table of contents.
"Here's one of the first:
10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."
So, I'm interested in knowing what lessons you drew from that passage. Studying the Bible doesn't involve reading it alone in a room and saying "there, done." It also doesn't involve having someone read it for you, then give their interpretation. True study of the Bible involves reading, putting into context, discussing with those who are also studying, consulting with experts, and thoughtful prayer. Since you said you've studied the Bible, I will assume you have done all of this. So, I'm interested in knowing what conclusions you drew from this passage.
"The link cites all the actual Bible quotes. Everything is cited and linked to."
Just as the National Enquirer includes truths, then twists these around for the sake of entertainment.
"You may not agree with some of the opinions but that's a different matter."
It's not a different matter. It's the very matter I was speaking of. I value the opinions of the link you cited about as much as I value the opinions of a magazine which talks about bat boys and Elvis sightings.
"Of course I've studied these things. I believe you're painting an invalid picture if you don't think many Christian sects don't still teach from the Old Testament. I definitely know that Catholic churches still do."
I agree with you. Not all sects of Christianity can be right. Of course, if you find the elements they all agree on, you will be better enlightened than simply focusing on the select areas they disagree on. I'm sure the same holds true for Muslims. Half a dozen Muslims crash some planes and suddenly all Muslims are held accountable. I do not agree with this. Likewise, cherry picking different sects of Christianity to prove that all of Christianity encourages violence and hatred is missing the point entirely.
"I don't buy this 'Don't look at the Old Testament. God used to be crazy but reformed' crap."
I don't buy it either. God wasn't crazy.
If someone you loved fell from a cliff and died, would you curse gravity, call gravity crazy, then disbelieve gravity because it causes too many problems? I don't exactly agree with your way of thinking. I follow it, but don't agree with it.
"Jesus himself validated the Old Testament several times."
As He should. The entirety of the Bible is important. However, you can't read about circumcision in the Old Testament, then say "see, it says it is required!" You'd be ignoring the New Testament. Of course, you also can't just read about Jesus in the New Testament and say, "See? God doesn't exist anymore. Now it's this Jesus fella'." Understanding of the Old Testament is required to understand the significance of Jesus and to know the love God has for us.
"By the way the link I gave before has easy ways to filter by Intolerance-> New Testament if you like those examples better."
I'm pretty sure the National Enquirer has a table of contents.
"Here's one of the first:
10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."
So, I'm interested in knowing what lessons you drew from that passage. Studying the Bible doesn't involve reading it alone in a room and saying "there, done." It also doesn't involve having someone read it for you, then give their interpretation. True study of the Bible involves reading, putting into context, discussing with those who are also studying, consulting with experts, and thoughtful prayer. Since you said you've studied the Bible, I will assume you have done all of this. So, I'm interested in knowing what conclusions you drew from this passage.
Bob - "Just as the National Enquirer includes truths, then twists these around for the sake of entertainment."
Except they don't twist a damn thing. They give their opinion on actual quotes in context. You can read the quote in context to see if you agree.
"It's not a different matter. It's the very matter I was speaking of. I value the opinions of the link you cited about as much as I value the opinions of a magazine which talks about bat boys and Elvis sightings."
I don't care what you think of the link really. I'm guessing you're christian and heavily biased.
It's convenient for sorting by subject matter. They're not making up fictional stuff about bat boys. They're discussing actual Bible quotes.
"Likewise, cherry picking different sects of Christianity to prove that all of Christianity encourages violence and hatred is missing the point entirely."
I never said all of Christianity encourages violence and hatred. You're using far right style straw man arguments at this point.
What I said is various sects place more importance on the Old Testament than you do apparently and consider it binding as Jesus did.
"I don't buy it either. God wasn't crazy.
If someone you loved fell from a cliff and died, would you curse gravity, call gravity crazy, then disbelieve gravity because it causes too many problems? I don't exactly agree with your way of thinking. I follow it, but don't agree with it."
Irrelevant. Gravity didn't say a whole bunch of hateful violent intolerant stuff and then slightly tone down the crazy later on.
"As He should. The entirety of the Bible is important."
Yes, It's important to realize all of the crazy hateful awful things the Christian god said and did in the Old Testament.
"I'm pretty sure the National Enquirer has a table of contents."
You complained about Old Testament quotes. I gave you a convenient way to get to the New Testament.
If you want to simply dismiss the site because you're Christian and it threatens you I certainly won't be surprised. It is a common reaction to questioning religion.
"So, I'm interested in knowing what lessons you drew from that passage. Studying the Bible doesn't involve reading it alone in a room and saying "there, done." It also doesn't involve having someone read it for you,"
It sure sounds like there's some serious suffering in store for anyone that doesn't want this religion shoved on them huh?
Like for instance people who aren't interested should just be slain...
Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
19:28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Acts 3 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
I pointed out an example of that page twisting something out of context and you dismissed it. It's clear that you are anti-Christian and are therefore heavily biased when discussing the Bible.
"They're discussing actual Bible quotes."
I looked at the link extensively. You don't need to explain to me what they discuss. My point is that they quote the Bible, but then they give their own spin. When I say they take things out of context, I don't mean they fail to quote the Bible. I mean they don't give the proper background to the meaning of what is being discussed. They don't explain the history and the customs of the time. If they took a quote about "washing feet" but do not actually give background as to the significance of this act from that time, their interpretation of the quote would be meaningless. I'll give you an example. I'll quote you:
ME: "Just as the National Enquirer includes truths, then twists these around for the sake of entertainment."
YOU: "Except they don't twist a damn thing."
So, there's proof that you think the National Enquirer is a credible source for news, right? Or am I taking what you said out of context? I mean, I DID quote you, didn't I? Agreeing or disagreeing with my opinion is your prerogative, but then you're just splitting hairs.
THAT'S what I mean about not applying the proper context to a quote.
"I never said all of Christianity encourages violence and hatred. What I said is various sects place more importance on the Old Testament..."
You said, "then of course you should be familiar with all the violent, hateful, and intolerant things that are in the Bible...right?" A spin doctor such as yourself knows full well that any text can be treated as a Rorschach test. A person reads it, studies it, and gains meaning. A different person reads it, studies it, and gains meaning. The meaning both derive from it can differ. You clearly have the hateful view of the Bible, or else you wouldn't be trying to defend how many violent, hateful, and intolerant things are in the Bible. The irony is that one of the ultimate themes of Christianity is forgiveness, and yet you can't seem to forgive the Bible. Go figure.
No matter how much you try to push *your* view of the Bible on other people, or how much you try to regurgitate the view of a website you clearly worship and would take the author's opinions at face value, it's still just your limited view that most disagree with. At this point, it says a whole lot more about you as a person than it says about the words on a computer screen.
"Irrelevant. Gravity didn't say a whole bunch of hateful violent intolerant stuff and then slightly tone down the crazy later on."
No, but the science books do. First, gravity is all about killing people just because they don't want to stand on the cliff's edge anymore.
"Way to punish the innocent, gravity."
Then, gravity proclaims, "look, I'm just here to keep you all from flying off of Earth and into space where you can't breathe."
"Riiiight, gravity... you can't try to convince me to trust you THIS time. I know you're just waiting to make me fall when I don't deserve it."
This is the way you seem to be treating the Bible. Is this how you read all texts?
"If you want to simply dismiss the site because you're Christian and it threatens you I certainly won't be surprised. It is a common reaction to questioning religion."
If you want to simply dismiss the Bible because you worship that site and the Bible threatens you, I certainly won't be surprised. It is a common reaction to questioning religion.
"It sure sounds like there's some serious suffering in store for anyone that doesn't want this religion shoved on them huh?"
Again, that's with spin. Without spin, it would be the equivalent of an early doctor warning people about germs.
Germs have always been around, even when people didn't know germs were there. You don't need to believe in germs to be affected by them. If you lived at a time when people didn't know germs existed, imagine someone coming up to you and saying, "I have been studying these things that appear to be microscopic and they make you sick. After much study, I have found that if you wash your hands regularly, you will become sick less often. However, if you never wash your hands, you may fall ill and die."
It sounds like your knee-jerk reaction to this is, "How dare you suggest I be slain if I don't want this belief-system shoved on me? The fact that you think I should be dead if I don't follow your ritual of hand-washing shows how hateful and intolerant you are!"
You're reading between the lines, but there is no text between the lines. So, the meaning you are adding only comes from your own belief system, not from the text itself. Is there talk about consequences in the Bible? Absolutely. I don't mean to suggest that the Bible is full of pixie dust and candy floating on pink clouds. It isn't. Neither is life. If you are to suggest that we should all turn our backs on life itself because life is full of hatefulness, intolerance, etc... then you've got your own journey to get through.
My original point, and the point I am sticking to, is not to try to convince you how you must live your life. If you wish to live your life with hate and intolerance, it will be your journey to travel. My only point was that you pointed at the Bible and talked about nothing but hate and intolerance.
If you see only hate and intolerance in the Bible, it would suggest that this is the "sect" to which you belong. Yet, you point at the people who only see hate and intolerance in the Bible, and act as though they are the bad guys. So, on one hand, you are preaching hate and intolerance. On the other hand, you are denouncing hate and intolerance. Perhaps you only wish to argue for the sake of arguing? I'm just trying to figure out your motivation in life. Is your life's purpose to find people who believe in forgiveness and love and try to convince them that they should see the hate and intolerance that they are bound to?
To give a little perspective outside of your own particular view, imagine if this exchange had taken place in a different manner.
From your exchange with Patriot55, it would appear he was making a blanket statement that the Qur’an was all about hate and intolerance. You replied by showing how the Bible is full of hate and intolerance, too.
I jumped in to point out how the Bible is a text with a much larger message than just individual passages. If you only take snippets, you'll miss the whole picture. I didn't attack the Qur’an, I simply defended the viewpoint of keeping things in context, which would apply to any text.
How you COULD HAVE responded was to say, "Yes, you're right. While some people DO take the passages in the Bible out of context, they ALSO take the passages in the Qur’an out of context as well. The same mentality that sees only hate and intolerance in the Qur’an is likely the same mentality as those in Christian sects who only see and follow hate and intolerance in the Bible."
This, I think, would have strengthened your position in your discussion with Patriot55. You would have gained my respect once again. I'm sure Patriot55 would have chimed in with a rebuttal, and all would have been well.
Instead, you simply repositioned your attack against Patriot55 into an attack against me. It's as if you've got this condition where you need to be the only one who is right. If anyone chimes in, no matter how right they might be in your eyes, you'll find something in what they said that you disagree with. If you believe they are a Christian, you'll attack their faith by pointing out hateful Christians. If they point out that they, too, disagree with hateful Christians, you'll attack the Bible outright, as if to suggest that the hateful Christians simply "got it right". So, on one hand, you're attacking hateful Christians... on the other hand, you're suggesting that they're the only ones who came to the proper conclusions when studying the Bible. It's as if you are actually preaching hate and intolerance by pointing out how much hate and intolerance there is in the world.
I'm curious to know that if you were able to fix the world, what would the world look like? How do you think the world should be?
Bob - You said "I pointed out an example of that page twisting something out of context and you dismissed it."
No Bob, you chose one passage -> "An uncircumcised boy is to be abandoned by his parents and community" and simply made up your own interpretation of it as if it meant an uncircumcised boy is not to be abandoned. There is nothing backing up your interpretation at all so we could just as easily accuse you of twisting the words of the bible.
" It's clear that you are anti-Christian and are therefore heavily biased when discussing the Bible."
Don't make things up. I'm not anti-Christian. I'm objective.
"My point is that they quote the Bible, but then they give their own spin"
Just like you did.
"I mean they don't give the proper background to the meaning of what is being discussed."
I'd love to see you spin some of the specific quotes I've posted to change the clear meaning.
"ME: "Just as the National Enquirer includes truths, then twists these around for the sake of entertainment."
YOU: "Except they don't twist a damn thing."
So, there's proof that you think the National Enquirer is a credible source for news, right?"
That's just silly. The site does not put Bible quotes in as a reply to an unrelated topic. Address specific issues or your never going to have a point.
"You clearly have the hateful view of the Bible, or else you wouldn't be trying to defend how many violent, hateful, and intolerant things are in the Bible."
Making up more crap now. I have an objective unbrainwashed view of the Bible. Therefore I able to see the great, good, bad, and horrific things it contains. Some people are blinded to some of those categories somehow.
"The irony is that one of the ultimate themes of Christianity is forgiveness, and yet you can't seem to forgive the Bible."
WTF? I'm merely pointing out some of the absurdities it contains. It's a book. It doesn't need forgiven.
"No matter how much you try to push *your* view of the Bible on other people, or how much you try to regurgitate the view of a website you clearly worship and would take the author's opinions at face value,"
I'm not pushing my view any more than you are. I'm having a discussion.
I also don't worship the website or agree with all it's opinions. If you can quit making up straw man arguments and adding ad homs we can have a logical discussion here maybe.
"it's still just your limited view that most disagree with."
Don't try to speak for "most". If you disagree with something name it.
"At this point, it says a whole lot more about you as a person than it says about the words on a computer screen."
Yeah, it says I'm having a logical discussion while you repeatedly make up stuff and try to attack me.
"No, but the science books do. First, gravity is all about killing people just because they don't want to stand on the cliff's edge anymore.
"Way to punish the innocent, gravity."
Then, gravity proclaims, "look, I'm just here to keep you all from flying off of Earth and into space where you can't breathe."
"Riiiight, gravity... you can't try to convince me to trust you THIS time. I know you're just waiting to make me fall when I don't deserve it."
This is the way you seem to be treating the Bible. Is this how you read all texts? "
That doesn't even make any sense. Try again. I read the Bible and evaluate what I'm reading. This has zero do to with your gravity nonsense.
"If you want to simply dismiss the Bible because you worship that site and the Bible threatens you"
I don't worship the site or dismiss the entire Bible. Get it straight.
"Again, that's with spin. Without spin, it would be the equivalent of an early doctor warning people about germs"
Germs are science, religion is a belief system. If some told you "join Scientology or I will kill you" you might take issue with that. I take issue with it in the Bible.
" I don't mean to suggest that the Bible is full of pixie dust and candy floating on pink clouds. It isn't. Neither is life. If you are to suggest that we should all turn our backs on life itself because life is full of hatefulness, intolerance, etc"
I'm not suggesting anyone turn their backs on life because of the hate and intolerance contained in the Bible.
"If you wish to live your life with hate and intolerance, it will be your journey to travel."
I don't like hate or intolerance. That's why I'm taking issue with it in the Bible.
"My only point was that you pointed at the Bible and talked about nothing but hate and intolerance."
Yes, the current topic is hate and intolerance in the Bible.
"If you see only hate and intolerance in the Bible"
Nope, I see it all. It's just the current topic.
"How you COULD HAVE responded was to say, "Yes, you're right. While some people DO take the passages in the Bible out of context, they ALSO take the passages in the Qur’an out of context as well. The same mentality that sees only hate and intolerance in the Qur’an is likely the same mentality as those in Christian sects who only see and follow hate and intolerance in the Bible."
That would be one way to respond but it's wasn't my point. My point being all ancient religious texts contain hate and intolerance. They contain good things too but there's certainly a lot of crazy stuff.
"Instead, you simply repositioned your attack against Patriot55 into an attack against me."
I didn't attack you. I had a discussion about the hate and intolerance contained in the Bible. You made it a bit more hostile than it needed to be.
"It's as if you are actually preaching hate and intolerance by pointing out how much hate and intolerance there is in the world."
Nope, I'm pointing out that there is hate and intolerance in many ancient religious texts.
"I'm curious to know that if you were able to fix the world, what would the world look like? How do you think the world should be?"
It'd be nice if people could be objective about their own religions as well as other people's and not have a "my team is more righteous than yours" attitude. When people get too wrapped up in religion it causes wars and holds back the advancement of society.
Well put Bob, context is everything, back when I was first commenting on this piece, I was attacked for making ‘opinions’ with civility, below is just the most recent example of magistre. So magistre where was that when you called me…see below:
“magistre said... JoyFulOne, You're going to disturb PatriotSS with all this reality. He's a mental fascist and insists that "reality" is his to define and since he begins each discourse with the assertion: "I'm always right and because you challenge my world-view you admit that not only are you wrong but your also a Commie,lying,rat-bastard,etc". You'll never dissuade mental fascists from their frantically held beliefs. November 19, 2010 12:34 PM” On November 29 7:55PM, you backtrack on what you said to Bob, then attack his beliefs as ‘biased’, or your beliefs not also biased? The Holy Bible, both the Old Testament and the New are stories written 2,000 years ago, like it or not, believe it or not, the Bible gave us the Ten Commandments, which is a good blueprint for life as any I have ever witnesses. It does not matter whether or not you are religious, agnostic, or atheist. Now, I ask you magistre, are Muslims any more respected than Christians? They can pray in public, in schools, anywhere they have the notion, and we are expected to accept that, I believe I know why, let’s hear your point of view. Christians do not commit Jihad when someone does not agree with their principles or convert to their faith as a basis of being accepted. This country was based on religion, that is just a plain fact, however as much as I would like to see more people turn to faith before it’s too late, I and most of us put up with your intolerances, but we do not hate you because you do not believe, Christians will live and let live…we just do what we can for mankind. For many years, here and around the world, I have made many Muslim friends, people I trust. Here is some food for thought, have you by chance noticed that those who preach intolerance, are those who are the most intolerant (both politically and religious speaking). Regardless of what country or faith they profess, those are the most tolerant, giving, charitable good people here on earth.
Patriot55 - You said "Well put Bob, context is everything"
So, it souns like you are saying that you were wrong for taking quotes from the Quran out of context.
"They can pray in public, in schools, anywhere they have the notion, and we are expected to accept that,"
Are you saying we shouldn't let Christians or Muslims pray in public? That's weird.
"Christians do not commit Jihad when someone does not agree with their principles or convert to their faith as a basis of being accepted."
Some Christians and Muslims do horrific things because of religion. Most do not.
Most Christians don't advocate killing abortion docs...some do. Many Christians are responsible for taking away the rights of homosexuals in the US. They should be ashamed of themselves.
"This country was based on religion, that is just a plain fact,"
No, Enlightenment values. The signs are all over.
"I and most of us put up with your intolerances"
You're the one being intolerant here. Did you read the crap you just wrote about Muslims?
"Christians will live and let live"
Many will and many will not, just like other people. Look at how many are so intolerant that they would take away someones rights because of their sexual preference.
"have you by chance noticed that those who preach intolerance, are those who are the most intolerant (both politically and religious speaking)."
That's pretty obvious. You preach intolerance and I imagine you're actually pretty intolerant.
@joemama, as I said…’Everything in Context’, something you and Liberal/Progressives know nothing about, as illustrated by your reply/assumption. Once again you take what people say as facts assumed, not in evidence although I must say I am not surprised.
To you points above, however distorted you made them sound:
"They can pray in public, in schools, anywhere they have the notion, and we are expected to accept that,"
Are you saying we shouldn't let Christians or Muslims pray in public? That's weird.
Christian prayer groups have been kicked off the Capital steps only for praying in quiet, yet Muslims pray there at will without interruption. Christian and Jewish children cannot pray in school, yet Muslim children are allowed. It is NOT a Winter Holiday, it is Christmas and has always been, other ‘legal’ immigrants have never complained, only atheists, Muslims, and the ACLU, which is only a contradiction in terms.
Christians as opposed to radical Jihadists do not cut people’s heads off, or kill as many innocents as possible in public places. NOTE to all Muslim Terrorists; “there are NOT 72 Virgins or anything else awaiting you, burn in Hell for your crimes against humanity.
"This country was based on religion, that is just a plain fact,"
No, Enlightenment values. The signs are all over.
If you actually this country is/was not based in religion, read the “Federalist Papers”. According to the Preamble it is God who endowed us with our Rights; it dammed sure isn’t B. Hussein Obama!
Another thing, I am not intolerant of Muslims, had you taken the time to read my posts, you would have known that, you once again you ‘ass/u/me’.
@magistre: Drinking, I have not had so much as a sip of alcohol since I was married and my wife was pregnant (37 years ago), nor do I smoke or participate in drugs.
@joemama, magistre, JoyFulOne, it must be nice to be so perfect that it gives you the right to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner while being so narrow-minded.
So, I pointed out how you pulled quotes out of context. :)
"Christian prayer groups have been kicked off the Capital steps only for praying in quiet, yet Muslims pray there at will without interruption. Christian and Jewish children cannot pray in school, yet Muslim children are allowed"
Show me some proof of any widespread policy that allows Muslims to pray where Christians can't. It looks like you made that up.
I see Christians out pushing their religion every week. I never see Muslims doing this and there's a sizable Muslim population where I live.
"Christians as opposed to radical Jihadists do not cut people’s heads off, or kill as many innocents as possible in public places."
Some radical Christians and Muslims do awful things in the name of religion.
Who's behind taking away freedoms from people in this country based on sexual preference? Christians. Who shot George Tiller in a church? A Christian. Look at the lives Christians are ruining here.
Throughout history horrific things have been done in the name of Christianity. The slaughter of the Cathars, the Crusades, witch burnings, IRA bombings, the horrendous treatment of native Americans by missionaries...the list goes on and on.
Because of these examples should we be bigoted towards Christians in general now?
"If you actually this country is/was not based in religion, read the “Federalist Papers”.
Here I'm going to prove this to you once and for all. It's stated in plain English here.
Notice the quote: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".
"Another thing, I am not intolerant of Muslims, had you taken the time to read my posts, you would have known that"
I read your posts. That's where I saw the intolerance.
"it must be nice to be so perfect that it gives you the right to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner"
Where was this judging, jurying, and executing you speak of?
The illustration of the guy who made the car is pretty disturbing. Basically if you have money you make more money and the only chance a non money haver has of people sharing that money with him is to tinker in his garage until he comes up with an idea bigger than any of them combined not to mention that he will end up making a mess.
@joemama said “I see Christians out pushing their religion every week. I never see Muslims doing this and there's a sizable Muslim population where I live.”
"Christians as opposed to radical Jihadists do not cut people’s heads off, or kill as many innocents as possible in public places."
Some radical Christians and Muslims do awful things in the name of religion.
Name me one act of sever radical violence by Christians in the past 10 years or more.
Who's behind taking away freedoms from people in this country based on sexual preference? Christians. Who shot George Tiller in a church? A Christian. Look at the lives Christians are ruining here.
Throughout history horrific things have been done in the name of Christianity. The slaughter of the Cathars, the Crusades, witch burnings, IRA bombings, the horrendous treatment of native Americans by missionaries...the list goes on and on.
Because of these examples should we be bigoted towards Christians in general now?
So you have to go back to the Middle Ages for a war between Catholics and Arabs/Persians to make a point, and the Indians since the 15th century, hello Lincoln and other part of the U.S. War Dept. in the New Country killed Indians left and right.…Is that the best you can do???, "If you actually believe this country is/was not based in religion, read the “Federalist Papers”.
Here I'm going to prove this to you once and for all. It's stated in plain English here.
Not relevant to my argument
Notice the quote: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".
"Another thing, I am not intolerant of Muslims, had you taken the time to read my posts, you would have known that"
I read your posts. That's where I saw the intolerance.
You did not read what I said about the Muslims I worked with, or those who are my friends.
"it must be nice to be so perfect that it gives you the right to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner"
Where was this judging, jurying, and executing you speak of?
Realize it or not, you and most Progressives do judge those who do not agree with their philosophy.
Patriot55 - You said "Name me one act of sever radical violence by Christians in the past 10 years or more."
Why confine it to 10 years? Are you trying to say Christians were violent until just 10 years ago? Do you want us to forget about Christians slaughtering so many in Rwanda? You'd like us to not think about the Klu Klux Klan?
"So you have to go back to the Middle Ages for a war between Catholics and Arabs/Persians to make a point, and the Indians since the 15th century, hello Lincoln and other part of the U.S. War Dept. in the New Country killed Indians left and right.…Is that the best you can do???,"
I gave you many examples to show that Christians have been violent and involved in massacres throughout history. Were those trivial slaughter to you?
What is this about the War Dept? Are you saying if they killed Indians it was ok for Christians to do whatever they wanted to them?
"Not relevant to my argument"
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" <- Directly disproved your argument.
"You did not read what I said about the Muslims I worked with, or those who are my friends."
I don't care about your claims. You made your intolerance obvious.
"Realize it or not, you and most Progressives do judge those who do not agree with their philosophy."
It has fun watching Patriot and joemama spar, but on Patriot's last comment, I had to jump in. Patriot states: If Obama does not get onboard with the way a Government works, I suggest you arm yourself for the coming tyranny.
What a joke! Seriously, I am laughing. The GOP found out what happens when a President doesn't get it in 2008. If you haven't figured it out Patriot, it is the mistake of Congress and the President that when you spend OUR taxes on the Military Industrial Complex (ONLY) instead of on domestic issues, you get booted. When our tax dollars go to communist county loans, people get upset.
Thank you Joemama for making so much sense. It is funny how Patriot likes to talk about history EXCEPT when it goes against his own argument. He is a silly boy!
Thanks for the compliment, I would much rather be a silly little boy than live in ignorant bliss of the facts about what is going on in this country. Who quoted this; “When Government rules the people, you have tyranny, when the people rule the government, you have freedom.” Hint…he signed the Declaration of Independence.
More importantly, do you agree with this statement; “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”
Sorry, but I didn’t realize you were a Marxist, or at least talk as one…please tell me you didn’t actually say “Military Industrial Complex”. Haven’t heard that phrase much since the 1960’s and 1970’s…According to the Constitution, the primary role of our Government is to ensure we have a large well trained military to protect the people and to ensure our rights as Americans.
A couple of the ramifications of Marxist social and economic ideology, Marxism is summed up in the Encarta Reference Library as “a theory in which class struggle is a central element in the analysis of social change in Western societies, such as redistribution of wealth to eliminate social classes.” Marxism is the antithesis of capitalism which is defined by Encarta as “an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods, characterized by a free competitive market and motivation by profit.” Marxism is the system of socialism of which the dominant feature is ‘public (not private)’ ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange. Simply put, we are less free today than we have ever been, and thanks to Obama, we are very close to being a bankrupt Nation. He wants to raise the National Debt (again) to $16 Trillion dollars. Are you ready for a One World Government
The theology of Marxism is Social Justice as the primary religion, which is no real religion other than economic, in Obama’s book “Dreams of my Father” he states clearly that Social Justice is the ONLY way in which he believes we will move in the right direction.
Social Justice argues that there are certain basic needs that must be offered to all. These include things like truly equal education in all schools and programs that would help all children have the financial opportunity to attend by changing the grading system so that everyone may have a higher education and the Government to pay for those who cannot afford tuition. Far left groups, often termed socialist even if they differ from true definitions of socialism, further argue that a just society cannot be had unless everyone has access to food, safe shelter and medical care. The way to achieve this is through taxation and government implementation and massive over-regulation of programs that will guarantee complete equality for all people. THIS IS NOT WHAT AMERICA IS ABOUT!!!
This interesting bit of propaganda is more more effective today than in 1948. There are few historians anywhere to have in-depth discussions of the half-truths, omissions and mis-directions presented in the cartoon.
There's no time or space to have that discussion, here--or most places.
Propaganda you say? This short cartoon is an indicator that has been with us for a very long time, and it’s happening again today. Note the name of the ‘fix-it all elixir’ (ism), it is a path many have tried to take us down before. Each time some portion of ism sticks for the next one, it happened in 1913, during the Woodrow Wilson/FDR (one Republican/one Democrat, both were Progressives) periods. The only reason FDR did not succeed is WWII (till then he had the country just about where he wanted it, by extending the Great Depression 10 years longer than would have taken handled properly. The Bottle of ISM has the meaning of Socialism/Marxism/Communism as opposed to freedom. FDR did the New Deal as an attempt to ease the Great Depression, which in turn extended it instead by spending Government Tax dollars on a so-called ‘fix’ to stabilize the dollar…It only made it worse. When Germany began WWII, the United States geared up factories to help the E.U. (Great Briton in particular), until we entered the war in December 07, 1941 after the attack on Pearl Harbor. THAT is what drug us up from the Depression, not the New Deal. The New Deal is a series of economic programs implemented in the United States between 1933 and 1936. They were passed by the U.S. Congress during the first term of Franklin Deleno Roosevelt, President of the U.S., from 1933 to 1936. The programs were responses to the Great Depression, and focused on what historians call the "3 Rs": relief, recovery and reform. That is, relief for the unemployed and poor; recovery of the economy to normal levels; and reform of the financial system to prevent a repeat depression. Historians distinguish a "First New Deal" (1933) and a "Second New Deal" (1934–36). Some programs were declared unconstitutional others were repealed duringWWII. The "First New Deal" (1933) dealt with groups; from banking and railroads to industry and farming, all of which demanded help for economic recovery. A "Second New Deal" in 1934-36 included the Wagner Actto promote labor unions, the Works Progress Administration (WPA) relief program, the Social Security Act, and new programs to aid tenant farmers and migrant workers. The final major items of New Deal legislation were the creation of the U.S. Housing Authority and Farm Security Administration, both in 1937, then the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, which set maximum hours and minimum wages for most categories of workers and the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938.
Despite Roosevelt campaigning heavily against anti-New Deal Republicans and anti-New Deal Democrats, Republicans gained many seats in Congress in the 1938 midterm elections and the Democrats opponents of the New Deal retained their seats, resulting in the WPA, CCC and other relief programs being shut down during World War II. In the 1960s, Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society took New Deal policies further. After 1974,** laissez faire (the theory or system of government that upholds the autonomous character of the economic order, believing that government should intervene as little as possible in the direction of economic affairs.)** views grew in support, calling for deregulation of the economy and ending New Deal regulation of transportation, banking and communications in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Several New Deal programs remain active, with some still operating under the original names, including the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), the Federal Crop Insurance Corporation (FCIC), the Federal Housing Administration (FHA), and the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA). The largest programs still in existence today are the Social Security System and the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). Both of these progressive programs (The New Deal and The Great Society) needed a Central Bank (Federal Reserve) to pay for them…Anytime you involve Big Labor, it will always cost more than is required. If we have a chance at getting out of the economy, we will have a need to put solid constraints if not eliminate Unions. If we do not do so soon, we will also have to bring austerity measures, just as Greece, Italy, Spain, Germany and the U.K. have began theirs to save the economy. Unfunded Union pensions are already un-sustained via mismanagement of funds, are now owed $3 Trillion dollars…They are looking to the Government to make them solvent again. With what is going on in today’s economy we cannot afford to do so, yet it may happen nonetheless. The Federal Reserve Act December 23, 1913 which had arisen from a scare in 1907, and previous scares in 1837 and 1893-1897, the American economy was showing signs of weakness as a number of business and Wall Street brokerages went bankrupt. In October, the respected Knickerbocker Trust in New York City and the Westinghouse Electric Company both failed, touching off a series of events known as the Panic of 1907. In the wake of the initial business collapses, stock market prices plummeted and depositors made a massive run on the nation’s banks. The U.S. Treasury pumped millions of dollars into weak banks in the hope of saving them, but the string of collapsed institutions lengthened. The Gold Standard was under assault, which is when J.P. Morgan acted to restore order, over the course of the next three weeks, Morgan and his associates labored to channel money from the strong institutions to the weaker ones in an effort to keep them afloat.
The joint effort of the government and the business leaders improved conditions markedly over the course of several weeks. While the crisis passed, the finger-pointing began. Reform elements of both political parties believed that the American banking system was fundamentally flawed and needed wholesale change. Economists, however, held that Roosevelt's progressive legislation had upset the natural order of the economy and the government should stop its meddling. With the passing of the Owen-Glass Federal Reserve Act of 1913, the Federal Reserve System was created. The "Fed" was designed to be flexible and responsive to the economy and independent of politics. The Fed has evolved through the years by implementing many strict checks and balances. New departments, the General Accounting Office, GAO, and the Office of Management & Budget, OMB, were created to audit the Fed and most other government departments. As a result, the American economy, and American society are more stable…or so they say. What we really need is to go back to the gold standard and stop overspending.
Sorry, Patriot55, Woodrow Wilson and FDR were both Democrats and both 'progressives' ~ I don't like that term: 'progressives'! Everything they are trying now has been tried over and over with the same results - Abject failure! So please refer to them as "regressives" - it's more befitting! LOL!!
Once our monetary system was usurped by going off the gold standard and the introduction of a private Federal Reserve bank that issues debt instuments (Federal Reserve Notes) instead of "Silver Certificates" it could only be, "when", not, "if" our constitutional freedoms would be stripped from us.
WHO IS KEEPING TRACK OF THE TRILLIONS? PLEASE HELP US FIGHT THE FED WITH YOUR EMAILS. TAKE THE TIME TO SEND IT TO JUST 2 PEOPLE, WE WILL WIN THIS WAR.
If we can get this clip in front of 50 million people, it's game over...
Help spread the word about stealth Bailouts from the FED. It's your tax money $30,000 per person just last year alone! Tens of millions have no idea what the Federal Reserve even does.
oday, the unions are impotent, the family farm is just about gone (now theirs big Agra/business), small business is being trampled on by big business and the government, big business (the corporate class) has overwhelmed our system and government and politicians are corporate class wanna-bes that sold their souls to big business and the Devil. Ism isn't our downfall it's that we lost our checks and balances when it comes to taming big business and now we're headed to a Plutocracy that will resemble the ones in South America (2% filthy rich, 10% professionals and wanna-be "servants" and 88% dirt poor).
oday, the unions are impotent, the family farm is just about gone (now theirs big Agra/business), small business is being trampled on by big business and the government, big business (the corporate class) has overwhelmed our system and government and politicians are corporate class wanna-bes that sold their souls to big business and the Devil. Ism isn't our downfall it's that we lost our checks and balances when it comes to taming big business and now we're headed to a Plutocracy that will resemble the ones in South America (2% filthy rich, 10% professionals and wanna-be "servants" and 88% dirt poor).
You know,ccapers1,along with the other "goop-mongers" one of you should really get a dictionary (or better yet, someone to read it to you) and find out the real definitions for the words you use and stop relying on the tripe all too readily supplied by the "goop" twins, Beck and Limbaugh. If you learn to read and understand what you read maybe someone will take pity on you and participate in a discussion not name-calling.
hey "magistre", what ISM are you selling? Sorry for calling you a Progressive Democrat. I know you liberals take offense to being labeled as yourself. What a shame it would be to be like you.
ccapers1 you can't get anything right can you? (no pun intended). You didn't call me any kind of a Democrat (thank you) and obviously your drivel-machine is off-track again. Why don't you try going to school and learning to read and comprehend. I know that will be difficult for you but it must be done.
I have to agree with magistre! Capers is just mouthing Limbaugh, Hannity, and the rest of the Faux News folks. About a 1/4 of our US citizens don't even know what Capitalism is . Capers has to do some research on what other forms of governments there are. He certainly doesn't have a clue. We ALL need to research the facts. The media, both on the right and left is mostly opinion, so lets ALL research the facts. We all have our own opinions, but there is only ONE fact.
This is a little off message, but my hat is off to John Boehner for coming out in front of God and everyone and saying that, "Yes, President Obama is a US citizen and he is a Christian." First comment coming from the GOP that has made some sense in a long time. Kudos Boehner! I see a ray of hope that there is a little sanity in the Republican party! But don't get your hopes up!
Dear magistre, I pray for your soul. You constantly seek to injure and destroy your fellow man; you truly have subjugated your soul to satan. Please read the following and learn how to fill your heart with love and compassion instead of the evil that consume you. http://www.cwlinc.com/Renounce-satans-lies.htm
To: ccapers! You have lost it! Magist is no where near meeting up with the devil. To add a little humor to the discussion, I received via email both liberal and conservative articles. I just received from OneNewsNow an article and on the subject line it said: A gay Conservative is an oxymoron. Does that include those Log Cabin dudes?
Let's see, ccaper! by your own words, you would throw the poor,en massse into The Pit but I'm the evil one. You certainly have a warped sense of morality-and please refrain from making up points-of-view for those you disagree with and then "cleverly" countering the arguments you've presented for them. Isn't it long passed your bed time?
Let's see, ccaper! by your own words, you would throw the poor,en massse into The Pit but I'm the evil one. You certainly have a warped sense of morality-and please refrain from making up points-of-view for those you disagree with and then "cleverly" countering the arguments you've presented for them. Isn't it long passed your bed time?
Thank you magistre! Not only do you make total sense, you have a great sense of humor! I have noticed that ccapers starts name calling when he can not back up what he/she is saying, or disagrees with your opinion! Anywho, have a great day!
@magistre; (who woke this thread up again?) I see you and joyfulone are still putting every person with whom you disagree with, neither of you have no shame or a clue as to where we are heading. What are your feelings on Obama’s new $3.7 Trillion dollar budget? Shame this is not 2012, are you now disagreeing with the NYT, ABC and CBS news. Let me see, you do not believe in Christian or other religious values with the exception of another unseen higher being…Islam. No one can pray in schools or if you prefer, in public buildings, but it is alright for Muslims to be allowed to pray three times (out of their five) during school hours. Yeah, that makes sense coming from you guys! I am sure you were against the Patriot Act under Bush, what do you think about it now that the left has not only voted it back, and much more intrusive than under Bush. How is it can you all be so myopic to anyone who does not share you opinion(s)?
To Patriot: Let's start with the 3.7 budget. It is a good start. Just got done watching the subcommittee hearing with Lew. The GOP House wants to cut entitilement programs that would do nothing except hurt the economy, but when it comes to the building of an Air Force engine that we don't need, they are all for that. Since the House now is GOP they couldn't give a flying rats ass about jobs. Their first subcommittee hearing for the 112th Congress was about abortion. Ummm! Lew worked with a bi-partisn team to come up with the budget with DOD approval. It took 8 years to get us in this CF, and then all the sudden the GOP wants the books balanced by 2012. Watching the GOP House members during this meeting was funnier than watching Jon Stewart. They all have amnesia. Oh, and for prayer in schools? Do it in church. At my Grandchildren's school, the Muslim kids are not excused to pray 3 or 4 times a day. So I am not sure what you are talking about. Patriot Act? I watched the House debate this, and there are 3 parts of it that the Dems want dropped. Not the GOP. The GOP talks all about sticking with the Constitution when it suits them. The GOP use fear, half truths, and down right lies when it comes to most anything, but especially the Patriot Act. And don't get me started about Gitmo. Largest travesty of our lifetimes. Put a stain on this nation that will take decades to recover from. Open a book, fact check you stuff and come back and try to make some sense.
(un)PatriotSS I see your still using your "Beck's Basic Guide" to supply your "arguments" (name-calling) against people who think. I'm sorry but you're just pitiful, almost as bad as ccaper!
Joyfullone: So, how do you think Obama will pay for the $3.7 Trillion, China is backing off buying our Treasury Notes with intentions of stopping altogether should our AAA credit rating falters. Until that time comes, they are raising our interest rates. Currently we are now paying over $840 Billion per year; however the $3.7 Trillion does not pay anything on the interest.
Anyone who gives the budget chart a cursory glance can see the debt will continue to skyrocket under the White House proposal. In fact, the long-term outlook shows the public debt -- which isn't even the entire debt -- soaring from about $11 trillion this year to nearly $19 trillion in 2021. Driving that increase is the fact that annual deficits will never fall below $600 billion. To justify the administrations claim, Lew said the administration was merely referring to "primary balance" -- or federal spending minus interest payments. Pressed to explain this claim, the president hinted at the rationale.
"We've racked up a whole bunch of debt. And there's a lot of interest on that debt," he said. "So in the same way that if you've got a credit card and you've got a big balance, you may not be adding to principal. You've still got all that interest that you've got to pay. Well, we've got a big problem in terms of accumulated interest that we're paying and that's why we're going to have to whittle down further the debt that's already been accumulated." Verification: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/feb/15/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-white-house-budget-would-not-add/
What would happen to you if you ignore your mortgage, auto payment, or your credit cards if you do not pay the interest, worse yet if you do not pay the IRS interest should you miscalculate your taxes, or taxes are so high you have to do a payment plan with them?
magistre...Do you watch Beck, I ask due to the fact that I do not, nor do I watch Hannity or any-other so called entertainment shows. Although I do watch the news on FNC, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN plus I also read the NYT. This gives me (a Media Watchdog) the fuel I need to discredit many false claims.
BTW-You are the name caller of the past year and starting on a new one! Personally we have never had to pay interest on anything, we TCB.
To Patriott55: Oh, you mean the 3.7 Trillion borrowed by bushtard for the Iraq war from China? Oh, and then kept those costs out of the fiscal budget? Well, if you would take the time to read the fiscal 2011/2012 budget, you will find out how we are going to pay off bush's debt. To cut back drastically on entitlement programs now would be devastating to our economy. This is not a Democratic idea they pulled out of their asses, many top Republican experts also agree. You really ought to get off Faux News and watch C-Span and get the FACTS.
Of course I wouldn't ignore my bills, I would pay for them. But I have a little problem paying for a $3 TRILLION dollar needless war with my taxes. Again, we might as well have taken that $3 Trillion and had a bon-fire.
There is waste galore in a lot of programs. We should address those 1st and every program needs to be cut back. It just burns my ass to watch a macho Texas (R) Congressman say that it is more important to build an extra jet engine that we don't need, then eliminate programs to help starving kids in America. Is that your idea of Patriotic? iDrop the bush tax cuts on the top 2% of Corps and we would get back about about $700 Billion back in 10 years. And if there is a soul out there that still believes in the "trickle down effect" needs to check in to a re-hab. That is the biggest lie out there. We tried that experiment during the bush w. administration and look how many jobs that created. You should be laughing off your chair right now. Again, cut the Faux News talking points and read the bill. And again, took 8 years to get us in this mess and it is laughable beyond belief that the House GOP's think the books should be balanced fiscal 2012. There is some drug testing that needs to be done!
Patriot55, I'm glad to see that your adult version has returned. I don't necessarily agree with what you say but then again I don't nedessarily disagree either. Once again, thank you for the maturity.
Patriot55 it is funny in that our veiwing habits aren't so dissimilar. About the only diferrence is I don't read the NYT. I do read some Chicago publications.
@Joyfullone; I cannot find any records which show that Bush borrowed any money from China, not even on FactCheck.org. We had a wonderful economy from 2001-2006, then the Democrats took both Houses in 2007, this is when the housing market began to collapse due to Barney Frank and Chris Dodd supporting Freddie Mae, Freddie Mac, Acorn, and forcing Banks to give sub-prime mortgages to those who could not afford a home. (This IS supported on FactCheck.org) I did locate the war budget (each year he was in Office) from Iraqi Freedom through 2008 never got out of the Billions; it did not even hit a Trillion since he had paid for much of the war.
(Laughing) Bush NEVER spent 3.7 Trillion on Iraq and Afghanistan in the eight years as president, and lest we forget, the majority of Democrats in both Houses also supported both of those wars and voted on them. (FYI---I Do watch C-Span and DVR what I will miss.) Bush’s unemployment numbers averaged 5% till 2007. Have you yet to learn that higher taxes on private businesses plus the Capital Gains tax (and waiting to see what it will cost them to operate due to ObamaCare) is why they are not hiring any longer?
Tickle-down Economics was applied by Reagan in 1982; Bill Clinton used the same strategy in 1994 to get re-elected. Economists from Columbia and Harvard claim that if Bush had not gotten the $700 Billion in November of 2008 (of which most of that money went to Obama), that the Housing Market and Banks would have caused a great depression. I really didn’t like the cost by Bush at the time, but in hindsight it was needed. Under Obama, both the National Debt and Deficit have hit new all time highs, he also set a new record for spending from George Washington through Bush, as of 2011 the total comes to just over $5 Trillion Dollars, with $3.7 Trillion for 2012. The very same Economists and the CBO have said that including interest on borrowed money from 2009 to present will total $19 Trillion by 2019.
2,055 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1401 – 1600 of 2055 Newer› Newest»People... Sort it out for yourself. Read the books that have been published for the last 100 years. If you can't choose how to live and protect your own life and ways.... freedom is already gone. No matter who is "in charge" of the country. None of this selfish crap happened or kept happening in the Native Americans communities. Life started down hill after the white man moved to the continent.
I honestly have to laugh about the partisan Blame Game seen on this comment line. From Bush back to the original white man coming upon the continent...ha! How does Glass know what really happened in the 1700's in the native American communities? BTW: nations and people get CONQUERED; it went on for centuries prior to the one on the North American continent - get over it. As for the ignorant statement about our Founding Fathers being only deists or agnostics: go to http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm -- the Majority thought was in support of the Christian faith and of Judeo-Christian basics. Even Jefferson, long thought to be only a deist (or so taught to us in our leftist public schools) admits to being a Christian. All this being said - our Liberty has ALWAYS been endangered by folks who hate us for it, or by folks who want to sell us out (the most recent started with FDR, a blatant progressive who initiated the Ponzi scheme known as Social Security). We DO still have our Freedom, but it has been greatly eroded; socialist thought and behavior (yes, that's what BHO and his cronies support) - will bring us down sooner. That's what the Tea Party folks are ticked about, and why November can't come soon enough.
This post comes on 9/11/10 -- NEVER FORGET: there are folks out there still who want to bring us down (in fact, the Jihadists want to kill us all, and consider America the "Great Satan" - ask Ahmadinejad). Don't give up your freedoms; don't let our government take over our individual or states' rights!! VOTE for people who will represent YOU, not their own interests or those of whoever sends them the most money. VOTE for those who will UPHOLD our laws, not undermine them in order to erode national security (borders). Find out what the Founding Fathers really wanted (read original documents!!), and God Bless America!!
This is just a rant against capitalism by loonies
This actually all started with industrialization during WW2. Eisehnhower warned of the industrial military complex gaining to much influence in govt. during his resognation speach. I do find it funny that most of our personal freedoms were lost during the Bush admin, under the guys of "security", but yet all the republicans think Obama is the cause of this. Remember he inherrited a huge pile of shit that Bush and his greedy cronies messed up. But really, we need to remember we are all Americans, all on the same team, and parties just divide us into fighting each other so nothing changes. We spend more time bickering over party power than trying to actually solve problems.
Gun up!! It's the only guarantee!!!!
That "Snake-Oil" salesman looks like Obama in a Cab Calloway suit...interesting...NIETHER political party has the country's best interest in mind...only THEIR job security. Less government, more unity...it's pretty simple.
What a bunch of hogwash! Capitalism is not a perfect system, the name proves it, it's an ism!
I just want to clear up Robert J. Sodaro's point about Old Glory always having the stars in the top left. It's a 2-sided flag, sir. When you hang it from a pole and the wind blows you will either see the stars in the top left or the top right. If you knew anyone in the military you would know that when we are at war, our troops wear the flag on their arm with the stars in the top left.
Trust the government?
With all the fuss over a Moslem center in NY you miuss the following:
1) In the Pentagon there is a Moslem prayer center. Why is the military silent on the site in NY?
2) The FACT is that the WTC came down with planned explosives and the planes, while probably run by Al-queda, could not have brought them down. Building 7 was not even hit and it came down the same way. There is zero mention of it in the 911 report.
Take a look at the physics:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182697765360042032#
There is no government to trust. We have advanced beyond to corporate control. For example, in the nonsensical fuss about the Moslem center in NY:
1) The pentagon has a Moslem prayer room and the pentgon was hit on 911. Why doesn't the military speak up?
2) The physics is absolutely reliable in that the WTC was brought down by planned demolition, not Al-Queda planes. Newton is correct. They came down in free fall, not by Muslim terrorists. Anyone who had tried to soften steel in kerosene fire knows that. But see the physics:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182697765360042032#
There is no government to trust. We have advanced beyond to corporate control. For example, in the nonsensical fuss about the Moslem center in NY:
1) The pentagon has a Moslem prayer room and the pentgon was hit on 911. Why doesn't the military speak up?
2) The physics is absolutely reliable in that the WTC was brought down by planned demolition, not Al-Queda planes. Newton is correct. They came down in free fall, not by Muslim terrorists. Anyone who had tried to soften steel in kerosene fire knows that. But see the physics:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182697765360042032#
There is no government to trust. We have advanced beyond to corporate control. For example, in the nonsensical fuss about the Moslem center in NY:
1) The pentagon has a Moslem prayer room and the pentgon was hit on 911. Why doesn't the military speak up?
2) The physics is absolutely reliable in that the WTC was brought down by planned demolition, not Al-Queda planes. Newton is correct. They came down in free fall, not by Muslim terrorists. Anyone who had tried to soften steel in kerosene fire knows that. But see the physics:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182697765360042032#
Be happy we have the freedom to bitch about this. God Bless America
Be happy we have the freedom to bitch about this. God Bless America
" ... and accordingly all Experience hath shewn [shown], that Mankind are more disposed [willing] to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which the are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations [seize something without right], pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces [a feeling of] a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism [ruled by tyranny], it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and provide new Guards for their future Security. "
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776. A DECLARATION
An excerpt from our Declaration of Independence with old English translations.
American Miguel Say...
Yes I grew as an inmigrant in the USA where Americans were free to dream and invent, yet now after 8 years of a group of politicians who defended their rich friends first forgot that Americans are and shall always be one Nation, News Networks that have engaged in dividing us by lying to the greatest citizens in the world.
American Miguel Said...
Yes I grew as an inmigrant in the USA where Americans were free to dream and invent, yet now after 8 years of a group of politicians who defended their friends first forgot that Americans are and shall always be one Nation, News Networks that have engaged in dividing us by lying to the greatest citizens in the world.
American Miguel Said...
Yes I grew as an inmigrant in the USA where Americans were free to dream and invent, yet now after 8 years of a group of politicians who defended their friends first forgot that Americans are and shall always be one Nation, News Networks that have engaged in dividing us by lying to the greatest citizens in the world.
I notice several comments talk about the past administration, and the fact that this is only one point of view, i.e. the Christian, and leaving out the Jews and Muslims, etc. These people just don't want to get it. They are part of the problem. The reason this was sent out in 1948 is that the Communist announced they were going to infiltrate our country and create the racial and economic divides (class warfare) that would tear us apart. They also said they would attack our schools, churches, unions, and any other element of our society that helped hold us together as a people. Remember "United we stand, divided we fall." It appears that this "ism" is working to perfection.
I notice several comments talk about the past administration, and the fact that this is only one point of view, i.e. the Christian, and leaving out the Jews and Muslims, etc. These people just don't want to get it. They are part of the problem. The reason this was sent out in 1948 is that the Communist announced they were going to infiltrate our country and create the racial and economic divides (class warfare) that would tear us apart. They also said they would attack our schools, churches, unions, and any other element of our society that helped hold us together as a people. Remember "United we stand, divided we fall." It appears that this "ism" is working to perfection.
Hey Raymond, I'd love to see some quotes where "the Communist" announced all these things.
That sounds hysterical.
RAYMOND you act as if before 1948 this was a perfectly unified country. What kind of fascist are you? Don't care for reality?
No One Was Listening
AMERICA WAS ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL...HE FOREWARNED US,BUT WE SLEPT....
Horrific, but, no one was listening!!!!
The following is a narrative taken from a 2008 Sunday morning televised "Meet The Press'. The author (Dale Lindsborg) is employed by none other than the very liberal Washington Post!!
From Sunday's 07 Sept. 2008 11:48:04 EST, Televised "Meet the Press" THE THEN Senator Obama was asked about his stance on the American Flag.
General Bill Ginn' USAF (ret.) asked Obama to explain WHY he doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem is played.
The General stated to Obama that according to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171... During rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed, all present (except those in uniform) are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Or, at the very least, "Stand and Face It".
NOW GET THIS !! - - - - -
'Senator' Obama replied:
"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking sides". "There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression.." "The anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all that sort of thing."
(ARE YOU READY FOR THIS???) KEEP READING
Obama continued: "The National Anthem should be 'swapped' for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing'. If that were our anthem, then, I might salute it. In my opinion, we should consider reinventing our National Anthem as well as 'redesign' our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and love. It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the level of acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we, as a Nation of waring people, conduct ourselves like the nations of Islam, where peace prevails - - - perhaps a state or period of mutual accord could exist between our governments ."
The last two paragraphs put the handwriting on the wall!! DC
When I become President, I will seek a pact of agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from disquieting oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation, have placed upon the nations of Islam, an unfair injustice which is WHY my wife disrespects the Flag and she and I have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past".
"Of course now, I have found myself about to become the President of the United States and I have put my hatred aside. I will use my power to bring CHANGE to this Nation, and offer the people a new path. My wife and I look forward to becoming our Country's First black Family. Indeed, CHANGE is about to overwhelm the United States of America "
Yes, you read it right. I, for one, am speechless!!!
Dale Lindsborg , Washington Post
No One Was Listening
AMERICA WAS ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL...HE FOREWARNED US,BUT WE SLEPT....
Horrific, but, no one was listening!!!!
The following is a narrative taken from a 2008 Sunday morning televised "Meet The Press'. The author (Dale Lindsborg) is employed by none other than the very liberal Washington Post!!
From Sunday's 07 Sept. 2008 11:48:04 EST, Televised "Meet the Press" THE THEN Senator Obama was asked about his stance on the American Flag.
General Bill Ginn' USAF (ret.) asked Obama to explain WHY he doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem is played.
The General stated to Obama that according to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171... During rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed, all present (except those in uniform) are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Or, at the very least, "Stand and Face It".
NOW GET THIS !! - - - - -
'Senator' Obama replied:
"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking sides". "There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression.." "The anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all that sort of thing."
(ARE YOU READY FOR THIS???) KEEP READING
Obama continued: "The National Anthem should be 'swapped' for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing'. If that were our anthem, then, I might salute it. In my opinion, we should consider reinventing our National Anthem as well as 'redesign' our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and love. It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the level of acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we, as a Nation of waring people, conduct ourselves like the nations of Islam, where peace prevails - - - perhaps a state or period of mutual accord could exist between our governments ."
The last two paragraphs put the handwriting on the wall!! DC
When I become President, I will seek a pact of agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from disquieting oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation, have placed upon the nations of Islam, an unfair injustice which is WHY my wife disrespects the Flag and she and I have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past".
"Of course now, I have found myself about to become the President of the United States and I have put my hatred aside. I will use my power to bring CHANGE to this Nation, and offer the people a new path. My wife and I look forward to becoming our Country's First black Family. Indeed, CHANGE is about to overwhelm the United States of America "
Yes, you read it right. I, for one, am speechless!!!
Dale Lindsborg , Washington Post
EdieB - You are a moron. You got that idiotic story emailed to you and believed it without even checking because you hate the president.
You got hoaxed and played for a fool.
Debunked here: http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama_anthem.htm
What the hell is wrong with people that they would believe something as stupid as this?
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories! Pathetic!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories! Pathetic!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories! Pathetic!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories! Pathetic!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories!
Jim said something to the affect that Clinton was to blame for forcing banks to give low-doc or no-doc loans to buy houses. That was the Community Reinvestment Act, (CRA.) The CRA had NOTHING to do with banks offering these risky loans. No legislation forced banks to do this. Don't believe me, walk in to any bank and ask the Manager if they were forced by legislation to offer these kind of loans. As for Fannie and Freddie, they don't make loans, they package them, so they are not to blame either. Another comment made was that bush didn't cause this near depression. He and his GOP Congress most certainly did. bush/cheney started a needless and senseless war and by the time Iraq is all said and done, that little price tag will be $3 TRILLION, borrowed from China plus interest. They kept those costs off the books. So don't blame President Obama for the CF we are in. bush/cheney are the most evil leaders this country has ever seen. Maybe if they thought just once about domestic issues, we wouldn't have the unemployment we do now. People have such short memories! Pathetic!
Someone made the comment that bush kept us safe after 9/11. What? 9/11 happened while he was in office, well he was actually in a classroom in Sarasota, Florida. If bush would have gone after bin Laden and al-Qaeda, we would not be talking about Afghanistan right now. There has been un rest in the middle east since time began. The ONLY reason we are there is to "protect our interests" which is code word for oil. bush/cheney lied to Congress and to the American people to invade Iraq, taking advantage of our anger and fear. After the Iraq war is all said and done, that little price tag will be a cool 3 TRILLION, (including VA costs), not to mention the loss of thousands of our troops, (more US people that died in the 9/11 attacks and close to a million innocent Iraqi men, women and children. Please, for the love of God, do not defend bush or cheney. They are mass murderers and war criminals. Keep an eye on bush and cheney. See how many times they leave this country. They are at least smart enough to know that they will be arrested for war crimes. We might as well have sent a gold embossed invitation to every country to invade us if they THINK we have weapons of mass destruction. We go to war when we are in an immediate threat. Iraq was and is never has been a threat to us.
Phillip, you have really fallen over the edge.
Over the edge? If you mean that I made the same post 5 different times, it is because it was my first time posting comments on National Juggernaut.
If you are referring to what I commented on, lets talk facts! I am open minded, but I like to talk truth, not opinion. Thanks!
To Joemama,
My comment was taken directly from videos that had been on TV, with the photo of Obama not saluting the flog on a newspaper. One photo showed Obama on a stage with Hillary Clinton and the local governor. They were all facing the audience, but while both Hillary and the Governor had their hands over their hearts, Obama had his hands folded below the waist. Also, he made the flag pin comment on the news,and well as the comment I posted, plus every move he makes shows that he is not an American patriot, but a Socialist intent on transforming our country into a Global nation until control of a UN type organization. Instead of me being a moran, it seems to me that you are a far-left liberal lurking on the site so you can make derogatory comments.
I have nine years of college and earned my living as a writer/editor
/producer in all the mediums, especially while I as an investigative reporter. I've been investigating Obama since he first entered the 2006 presidential race,
mainly because he has never been vetted like all presidential candidates are supposed to be.
I love cartoon serial.My Favorite Cartoon Serial are Tom & Jerry, Simpsons, Pokemon, south park and
Family Guy Tv .
Thnak for nice post buddy.
Did they have color cartoons in 1948?
What is really scary is that when you remove the skin, what is different about the wants, goals and aspirations of a Hispanic Caucasian, a Fair Caucasian, a Negroid, an Oriental, and an Indiginous Person? The answer is not a diddly damn. You cannot be a racist and try to impart "traits" on the desires of anyone.
All too often the imbecils gain control of the newsmedia, and they haven't given up control since 1966.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
– Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Treasury Secretary Albert Gallatin (1802)
I strongly believe that Bush made up 911, if not, take a look at the Pentagon, no military personnel at the "airplane" hit, no wheels, no wings, no flames... this is a make up. Mr. Obama is also comitting other kind of crimes against humanity, killing the desire of people of working hard for what they want...this is incredible, XXI century, with the last presidents ready to be tied and locked...
Yes, it is all true, the things the people are saying about getting the country back in shape. Throw out those commies, throw out those socialists, throw out those statists.
Also true is that almost to a T, the very people that comment this way on this blog post, will on electio day also go out and again and again vote their republican ticket. Many of them when pressed giving the "lesser of 2 evils" platitude.
I have tried many times to engage those that seemed to stand the best chance of seeing the light (for example people such as those that have posted coments to this blog item) and they turn glassy eyed when you talk about their own republican delegations voting FOR that thing called the TARP or about how Bush implementes the biggest intenal syp mechine this side of 1939 ... for our protection they say. They make up excuses about how it must have been necessary, and they simply refuse to see anything wrong in what happened ( duh more stat ism)
Heck, I even had a revealing, yet also disappointing, chat with Mitt Romney a couple weeks back and posted about it on my blog http://senecawrites.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-chat-with-mitt-romney.html and even he misses the point that the republicans and the republican voters are out of touch. (Well, he probably gets that last part and will use it effectively.)
Yes, republicans can take the house and the senate, but I fear that it will just be more of the same, camouflaged to look as something different. Whis that I might for it to be Left vs Right, but it is not it is the STATE vs YOU.
I have been watching this 'toon' circulating around the Internet and emails for two years now. I held the truth then in 1948 as it does today. We all lose when Liberal/Progressives are in charge...Woodrow Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Carter and now especially dangerous, Obama! In less that two years, him and his cronies have all but destroyed the greatest country the planet. Even our great military does not like serving a Commander in Chief who has continually put this country down, or apologized for it's past. Many of our freedoms are now eroding, and many more are in jeopardy in the very near future...As he has promised, even if the Republicans win either House, it will be a "Gun Fight"...nice, huh!! He brags about his agenda's passing, however he did so without American approval, the majority, including many democrats were against all his legislation.
Well, "Patriot"55, we know you can't wait to start ordering us all in choruses of the "Horst Wessel" song and directing of the "Goose-Stepping" school. I'm sure you are aware that g.w.b.'S grandfather, Prescott, was indicted under the "Alien & Sedition Act" in 1943 (Congressional Record) for heading the U.S. branch of the German bank (funneling money and orders to Hitler).
I don't know why you attack Obama? At this point in time I think he should change his name to "Quisling"!
And Yes, Prescott was getting his orders from many of the same people you are.
magistre, it is your party who is closer to Socialism/Marxism than most of the past presidents, and I guess you buy the theory Hitler was Right Wing, NO WAY...try reading real history. I deal with the living..If your grandfather was a commie spy, does that make you one also? Bush 43 only left a deficit of #480 Billion, the $700 Billion in TARP was left to Obama to loan to the failing banks, had he not done so, there would have been no doubt of another Great Depression thanks to Barney Frank and Acorn (and the Freddies)! At least when I was in the Military, my vote was counted, no way I would volunteer under Obama, ever. I want my grandchildren to have a future, cut the damned spending!
To: Patriot55! Do you realize how old and tired the "Socialist" and "Marxist" lines are? Every time a Democrat gets in to office, the same BS is spewed. Find some new material. At the end of President Obama's term, we will not be any closer to being a socialized nation then when he first took office. You will not be losing any of your freedoms that you enjoy. Oh, and as for TARP? That was a bush jr. deal, not President Obama! TARP was the 3 page document that bush & company presented to Congress. Nice try though. You obviously have not read any history and must have lived in a cave before 2009.
To: Patriot55 - I do agree, we have to cut the spending. I have said it before on this blog, lets put it in perspective! The illegal/immoral/needless war in Iraq will end up costing us $3 TRILLION dollars, (including all VA costs associated.) If the GOP will finally wake up and figure out that the "trickle down" affect does not work. That little experiment has been proved under the bush w. administrations tax cuts for the wealthy. When a CEO is making a billion dollars and his $35,000 secretary is paying more in taxes, things have to change.
Your biggest problem PatriotSS is that you only read who and what you agree with. You rte the one that needs to learn to deal with reality. A dictator is a dictator is a dictator-it matters not what he calls himself. And your fascist,elite uber-rich have sold all us ordinary folk down the river a long time ago. And yes, it can matter the political belief of your grandparent.
To: CO Nana- So, do you think everyone in the United States should be a Christian and practice Judeo-Christian basics? Cause if that is the case, that is what is called "Communism!" What is great about America is that we can worship who we want. Your philosophy is what gets the GOP in trouble.
magistre, no actually..I have no idea how old the Socialist/Marxist tags have been used before this president, I have been in both parties in my life, I have not seen it used before, nor have I heard it used before Obama. After reading his two books, he practically admits to being one, how in 'college he surrounded himself with Marxist friend and Professors'. Yes I read the NYT, WaPo, L.A. Times...ect. I watch the MSM as well as FNC, then I use Lexus-Lexus to verify my own findings, as well as other research sources which do not have a political agenda. In fact I found Bob Woodward's new book fascinating. Never in my life have heard a president blame everyone but himself. Your point on TARP, if you re-read my comment, I said Bush he had the TARP passed, it was at the end of September but no time to spend the Money.
*Phillip, nearly all of the wars that 90% of BOTH Parties agreed to go to war with Iraq and Afghanistan, the Troop Surge Obama said in Congress would never work...now HE is taking credit for it succeeding, gee what a guy. Capitalism is the engine that has always grown this country, your claim about a CEO's secretary's pay is just not true. You can check some of those out on Yahoo Finance, most make in the range of $65,000 to $80,000 per year depending of the size of the Co. I watched the debate on C-SPAN regarding leaving the tax cut in their entirety, 41 Democrats voted to keep all of them. On a straight up or down vote it would have passed. Now it's too late, look for even the poorest workers salary to increase until it is fixed, which will take months after the new year.
A person is not born with intellect, one must first separate the truth from fiction taught in schools. I went along with many of those lies at my University just to achieve a passing grade, the only time I argued and won a debate with one of my professors, my 4.0 went down to 3.86..
"I predict future happiness for
Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." _ Thomas Jefferson
magistre, no actually..I have no idea how old the Socialist/Marxist tags have been used before this president, I have been in both parties in my life, I have not seen it used before, nor have I heard it used before Obama. After reading his two books, he practically admits to being one, how in 'college he surrounded himself with Marxist friend and Professors'. Yes I read the NYT, WaPo, L.A. Times...ect. I watch the MSM as well as FNC, then I use Lexus-Lexus to verify my own findings, as well as other research sources which do not have a political agenda. In fact I found Bob Woodward's new book fascinating. Never in my life have heard a president blame everyone but himself. Your point on TARP, if you re-read my comment, I said Bush he had the TARP passed, it was at the end of September but no time to spend the Money.
*Phillip, nearly all of the wars that 90% of BOTH Parties agreed to go to war with Iraq and Afghanistan, the Troop Surge Obama said in Congress would never work...now HE is taking credit for it succeeding, gee what a guy. Capitalism is the engine that has always grown this country, your claim about a CEO's secretary's pay is just not true. You can check some of those out on Yahoo Finance, most make in the range of $65,000 to $80,000 per year depending of the size of the Co. I watched the debate on C-SPAN regarding leaving the tax cut in their entirety, 41 Democrats voted to keep all of them. On a straight up or down vote it would have passed. Now it's too late, look for even the poorest workers salary to increase until it is fixed, which will take months after the new year.
A person is not born with intellect, one must first separate the truth from fiction taught in schools. I went along with many of those lies at my University just to achieve a passing grade, the only time I argued and won a debate with one of my professors, my 4.0 went down to 3.86..
"I predict future happiness for
Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." _ Thomas Jefferson
magistre, no actually..I have no idea how old the Socialist/Marxist tags have been used before this president, I have been in both parties in my life, I have not seen it used before, nor have I heard it used before Obama. After reading his two books, he practically admits to being one, how in 'college he surrounded himself with Marxist friend and Professors'. Yes I read the NYT, WaPo, L.A. Times...ect. I watch the MSM as well as FNC, then I use Lexus-Lexus to verify my own findings, as well as other research sources which do not have a political agenda. In fact I found Bob Woodward's new book fascinating. Never in my life have heard a president blame everyone but himself. Your point on TARP, if you re-read my comment, I said Bush he had the TARP passed, it was at the end of September but no time to spend the Money.
*Phillip, nearly all of the wars that 90% of BOTH Parties agreed to go to war with Iraq and Afghanistan, the Troop Surge Obama said in Congress would never work...now HE is taking credit for it succeeding, gee what a guy. Capitalism is the engine that has always grown this country, your claim about a CEO's secretary's pay is just not true. You can check some of those out on Yahoo Finance, most make in the range of $65,000 to $80,000 per year depending of the size of the Co. I watched the debate on C-SPAN regarding leaving the tax cut in their entirety, 41 Democrats voted to keep all of them. On a straight up or down vote it would have passed. Now it's too late, look for even the poorest workers salary to increase until it is fixed, which will take months after the new year.
A person is not born with intellect, one must first separate the truth from fiction taught in schools. I went along with many of those lies at my University just to achieve a passing grade, the only time I argued and won a debate with one of my professors, my 4.0 went down to 3.86..
"I predict future happiness for
Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." _ Thomas Jefferson
Patriot55, though I disagree with your viewpoint, I admire your intellect. Well written, sir.
warren and finn,
Warren very well put, im with you... may we stand together in battle against the darkness and evil that seems to think its won, it has turned the hearts of men against one another and destroyed hope for the weak...as in finns case, here is someone who is only interested in what he is getting from the govt. and harboring hatred for the hardworking as opposed to becoming a better person thru educating himself and feeling the self worth that comes from working for the things he is getting for free, spiritually he/she is weak and powerless and essentially of no use to either side ///to coin a phrase...heaven doesnt want them and their to stupid for hell.
AS FOR THE CARTOON its message is a very accurate discription of an imbalance of power...bottom line!
seriously sad that some ppl only see the trees and not the forest.
Entitlement needs to be destroyed in America unless a person is diasabled or too old to work...What ever happened to the Puritan ethic...Think about this: How many signers of the Declaration of Independence refused to work and live off the government programs? Even the gentleman from Delaware signed the document when he was dying of cancer...Food for thought....
CSE
To: charleselmore - The founding fathers never in their wildest dreams would have predicted what this nation has come to. Back in those days contracts were hand shakes and a man kept his word. They would have never predicted the greed and lack of compassion that corporations have for their employees. The GOP keep wanting to return to the dreamland where the CEO of companies main concern was not the bottom line, but the welfare and stability of their employees. The GOP is more concerned with Wall Street than Main Street. And the worst of all is the Christian right who go to church every Sunday and profess how Godly they are, then when they are driving home spit on the homeless guy and tell him it is his own fault. All I have to say to that is 2 things. There but for the grace of God go I and most everyone is 2 or 3 paychecks away from being homeless. Back then a man would get a job and keep it for his entire life. Those days are also over. Quit living in the past!
@Phillip, I agreed with your statement up to the point of your saying, “The GOP is more concerned with Wall Street than Main Street.” and the comment afore that about big business only caring about their bottom line…everything else you put forward is a smear. You can only postulate at best what Christians think or do, in fact we have always been taught to help our neighbor regardless of skin color or social class. Exactly the way God and our Founders also taught (read “The Federalist Papers”) and still today the way we do things. We maintain a warehouse full of fans, Window A/C’s, Army blankets, food, clothes new/used and repaired appliances, generators..anything anyone could need. We have plumbers, certified electricians, carpenters, roofers, all who help the poor to all who need it, we also coordinate with the Black and Hispanic (usually Catholic) churches as to who needs what. We work a shelters, drive the streets during the worst summers, winters, hurricanes to help those who do not have what they need. Many of the Fortune Companies donate an unbelievable amount of money and the supplies we need.
We have a few democrats in our church who also help, but there are not any Liberals or Progressives. Christians cannot pray in our schools, but Muslims are allowed, why is that?
I worked Katrina, an brought a family back to Texas with me, hired the husband at my workplace, it turned out he had skills and is making $75.00 an hour including overtime if he wants, a 401K with company matching funds, and yearly bonuses. They were able to get their own place within three months and moved out of our home. We never have even take deductions on our charitable donations on our tax returns; it ends up coming out of the government coffers.
Are you aware that most of the Fat Cats involved in the Hedge funds on Wall Street are Liberals, in fact, Obama’s new Federal Regulators and their Czar are now making Wall Streeters even richer than before…great plan there, huh? His “Summer of Recovery” cost Americans another 600,000 lost jobs, increased out Debt 4.5 Trillion dollars and expected to lose another 1.6 trillion next year (if spending stops) just to pay for the Bills they have already passed, not to mention $550 Billion a year in interest..mostly to the Chinese.
So, Ann, if everyone would just be good little boy and girl Christians, everything would be a-ok! Sure, back in their day, contracts were not signed, a deal was made with a handshake. Those days are long gone. The greed of Wall Street have the founding fathers rolling over in their graves.
What some people seem to forget is what makes this country great is we are allowed to worship who we please. Our founding fathers, never in their wildest dreams would have predicted the greed and corruption of our time.
This isn't really too hard to believe. In 1948 there was a fear, among rational people, that the communist menace was poising itself to take over the world. It's much more prevalent and obvious today. An interesting cartoon, nonetheless.
...for our Neocon friends with short term memory loss, or revisionist history brain washing-- lets review W's contribution to our Republic:
The Bush administration, which during 2,920 days presided over foreign policy blundering (Korea, Iran), domestic policy blundering (Katrina), a trillion in war related debt (Iraq, Afghanistan), political pronouncements followed by inaction (We're addicted to oil), crony/ incompetent political appointments (Brownie, you're doing a helluva job), a fear premised national security policy (we'll keep you safe), a global economic melt down, the near abrogation of the Bill of Rights (secret legal memos, wire taps), the return of torture (water boarding) and disregard for the Geneva Conventions (Abu Ghraib), world wide loss of American prestige and humiliation (shoe throwing incident), Karl Rove's 'permanent majority' (DOJ firing's), Dick Cheney (Valerie Plame, Scooter Libby falls on his sword, Enron collapse, no bid Halliburton contracts, JSOC team reporting directly to office of the VP), its mind blowing really. Its also true that almost every administration is remembered for one or more political blunders-- Eisenhower (U2), Kennedy (Bay of Pigs, Marilyn Monroe), Johnson (Vietnam), Nixon (Watergate), Carter (Panama Canal, Hostages), Regan (Oliver North), Bush1 (lengthy recession), Clinton (Lewinsky)-- but George W. Bush leads everyone.
@rparker.fms
You like so many other Liberal/Progressives just cannot do not know the real truth, stop following MediaMatters and other social/Marxist web sites, including the so-called MSM…Your talking points are so old and outdated, and this is all you could come up with??? As for the Economic Collapse, it came to a boil in 2007...So remember this lesson in Civics:
**Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democratic Party. Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the “budget process” and Housing (i.e. Freddie Mae & Freddie Mac) for FY 2007, FY 2008 and FY 2009 as well as FY 2010 and FY 2011.**
Bush was had the best policy for Korea before and since, under BHO and Hillary they became a fully operational Nuclear power. ..Just as with Iran, talking to them does absolutely nothing with the exception of them laughing at this Admnin. Demoncrats (overwhelmingly) and Republicans voted for the war in Iran and Afghanistan, which was PAID for!!
Valerie Plame was guilty of sending her husband to Nigeria to look for Yellow Cake Uranium, which was found, but never reported, she did not have the authority to send her husband in the first place, therefore she ousted herself and tried to blame in on someone else. Global Warming is now (and has been) a hoax, only now more of the previous scientists, some of whom were on Gore’s false documentary. Abu Ghraib had NOTHING to do with Bush; it was a Captain without authority to allow that to happen…So I suppose you will blame obama for the large increase in civilian deaths in Afghanistan?
Obama has more “no bid” contracts than the Bush Admin ever had, which was a real sealed bid…not reported by the MSM, I am so surprised...LOL!
The current President has absolutely no business being in such a position, the man is clueless and a Socialist/Marxist. The Idiot Carter had the worst economy in modern history, till now. Bush only left $480 Billion for Obama; the $700 Billion in TARP was to be loans for banks and GM/Chrysler. Our current president was also left the $700 Billion, Bush never spent it, and he wasn’t in office long enough. Personally I disagreed with the TARP in the first place; make the loans directly to those who needed it, rather than taking them over by the Government.
Bush gave America the greatest economy in many, many years. Unemployment under 5% from 2006 through 2007 (when the Dems controlled both houses), yes I was angry with Republican spending, so I helped vote them out of office, just as you should now. I voted for JFK, I was sorely disappointed when he changed his mind on the Bay of Pigs, we would have never had Castro in office, Cuba would be a democracy now, and his inaction caused the nuclear stand-off with Russia by leaving Castro in power.
In just 20 months, Obama has added $ 3.5 Trillion to our Debt, and it is rising, from his campaign in 2008 through last month, all he could talk about were “Shovel Ready Jobs”, this month he admits there is no such thing as a shovel ready job. Now we find out in a Law Suit (not mentioned by the MSM) that obama and others at Columbia U lied, obama not only did not graduate, he never went to school there at all, that an d ruining our country the man should be impeached, period!!
@JoyFulOne, allow me to guess, you are from California, your post may be deleted for using all caps as a form of yelling.
The 111th Congress after the 2006 mid-term elections was made up of:
233 Democrats
202 Republicans
This gave the Democrats and 53.6% Majority with Nancy Pelosi taking the Speaker of the House
The Senate:
53 Democrats (Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Joe Lieberman of Connecticut) who caucused with the Democrats.
47 Republicans
This gave Harry Reid the Majority Leadership
Barney Frank is the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee; he does not need to pass a bill regarding the Housing Markets or Regulations.
FYI, Frank allowed the Freddie’s to buy failed mortgages by the boat loads, not to mention the millions of Sub-Prime Mortgages
From your comment: “BUSH/CHENEY ONLY CARED ABOUT STARTING THE ILLEGAL/NEEDLESS/SENSELESS WAR IN IRAQ AND KEEPING THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX ALIVE AND WELL. IRAQ WAS NOT THEN OR IS NOT NOW A THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES.”
If that was an Illegal war, why did so many Democrats vote for both Iraq and Afghanistan? In 2002 the vote to go to war with Iraq, the Joint Resolution 114 was taken on October 11, 2002. It passed the Senate by a vote of 77 to 23, and the House of Representatives by a vote of 296 to 133. The Intel was based on the CIA, MI-5 of the U.K., Pakistan’s Intelligence Service, and other European Intelligence sources. The British fighters also found yellow cake uranium, parts of centrifuges, and we now know for a fact that it was all sent to Syria, once it was put together again, Israel bombed and destroyed the nuclear plant. I was also in Iraq, before, during and after my service (as a private citizen in the latter years), I have spent 17 years of my life in the Middle East. I have been captured, beaten and tortured at the hands of Muslims for six months before escaping. I am talking about sever torture; water-boarding was the easiest one I went through.
I don’t need Google, although my findings can be found there, I got my information from Nexus-Lexus, the world’s largest database of everything printed or on video, including released government papers, of which all presidents and the D.O.D/Pentagon. Saddam Hussein was the murderer, killing over 400,000 of his own people to test Serine Gas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LexisNexis
I read at least five books per month, most are non-fiction and from both parties, even to the point of both books by Obama, read them, they will give you some insight into who and how his views were formed. You will never know the truth by watching the MSM or from the Internet. Judging from your post, I seriously doubt you want to really know the truth, you’re already have mind made up…congratulations on your indoctrination~!
To Patriot55: Iraq? The reason so many Democrats voted for it is because they believed the lies that bushtard told them. Plus, America was so mad and scared that they would have voted to blow up the Middle East, take names later. I watched C-Span daily from 2006 until President Obama took office and NOTHING got done.
The reason I used CAPS was because I orginally copied and pasted your post and then used CAPS to distinquish between what you said and what I said. If anyone on God's green earth thinks it was a good idea to invade Iraq, they need to check in to a mental institution. I gotta run, but will respond to the rest of your post later.
Patriot55, I see you're still drinking the "Faux Noise" kool-aid.
To: magistre - What in the heck are you talking about? I compare Faux News to the Jerry Springer show. If you watch Faux for one hour and got a nickel for every lie they told during that hour, you would be a billionaire. I watch it for entertainment value. And I can't watch it right after I have eaten, because Hannity, Beck, and the rest of the idiots make me want to puke. Anyone who watches Faux News are so brainwashed, they would believe anything! And they say they are "Fair and Balanced?" That is the joke of the decade!
@magistre The first known use of a Kool-Aid drinker was used by a Republican talk radio show (at KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh) in the 1978…it is a reference to Jim Jones, and those who blindly followed him, however the radio show was the first to use it politically to describe those who would blindly follow Jimmy Carter.
As far as anyone can tell, the only illegal war by the United States was Clinton when Congress vetoed his intention to engage in the war in what was then Yugoslavia. To quote ABC TV news, “President Clinton in 1999 waged a war without Congressional approval against Serbia, a part of the country of Yugoslavia, which was ruled by a communist, Slobodan Milosevic, but which posed absolutely no military threat to the U.S. Clinton’s military intervention put the U.S. (and NATO) effectively on the side of Muslim terrorists in the Kosovo Liberation Army.”
The only shows I watch on FNC, are America Newsroom w/Meygan Kelley and Special Report w/Bret Bear, do not watch the ‘Opinion’ shows. Their actual news shows are packed with Democrats, Liberals, Progressives plus many of those are politicians, the hosts of those shows do not interrupt what they are saying and never argue with the guests. I am sorry to say that is not true with the MSM with Republicans or Conservatives. When the Republicans had control over both houses, FNC and I damned them for their run-a-way spending, I refused to vote for them to return to office…Fox News pounded them harder than the MSM!
Now you not only have a president who jams his policies down the throats of the majority of Americans (and does it with bribes and threats), he has the leaders of the E.U. Nations running away from him. He insists they do not implement austerity, but to spend their way out of trouble. Now, Germany, the U.K., Italy, and Scotland are doing much better than we are, they have slashed their debts, while ours continue to explode. Our debt is unsustainable as are the Unfunded Liabilities.
Hmmm... filtering out all of the tangential stuff many have posited and accepting the mores of the time this was produced... the basic message message is an encouragement about how well this grand experiment called the USA was working and to warn us that it was and is fragile.
Freedom. The constitution reminds us that its our inalienable right from our Creator... history shows us that its been squelched far too many times in too many places.
Freedom. The freedom to even have this discussion is beautiful... and fragile.
A warning comes to us from 1948. Someone then cared to warn us. Guess it didn't work so well based on what we did with this country.
The warning continues - freedom is fragile - rare - we need to keep it even if only as an experiment.
There are plenty of other systems in other places and we're all free to go if we wish. If you wish, go. Please be open minded enough to allow choice and diversity of political systems. Allow the US to be a free, capitalist society - honor it from a standpoint of honoring diversity if you can't wrap your head around its philosophies.
From 1948, a warning. It behooves us to listen and consider the message (over the delivery style of the time) before we judge it.
What if we heeded that warning then? We didn't. What if we did now?
What if we learned from our past?
What if we vote before we lose that right. That, too, is fragile. (here in Chicago we still have dead people who vote and ACORN gave us cartoon characters to vote...
Heed the warning. Someone is reaching out to us from that many years ago... maybe for good reason... maybe 'cause they love this country and the grandkids they never met... us.
"give me your tired your hungry your poor" - well that philosophy sure has died out. Rather it's Keep Out!
McCarthyism has taken its place. So much for "ism's" What about capitalISM! Is that bad too?
1948 all children were not required to go to school and there were drinking fountains marked "coloured." "Oppressive" govt was needed to correct these wrongs among others.
"You can never go home again."
Gosh, Peggy, these are the "Golden Days" that the Republicans/T-Baggers want the U.S. to return to. You know, when Uppity Poor Folk could be run out of town on a rail or tarred and feathered. And we would never have a "Darkie" President who wanted to take care of the U.P.F. In the least the T-Baggers want Obama to change his name to "Steppin' Fetch-it!
To Ester, I'm thankful to see you stood up for Bush. Bush tried for years to make Washington see what was happening and he was ignored and booed at but he was telling the truth. And, yes, for dear ole Clinton, he started most of this crap Americans are having to live with, both he and Hillary deserve each other, they are nothing but liars, cheats and I guess Hillary enjoyed his antics through her private peep hole also!
Some way, we will make it, after Obomma leaves office; he and Clinton should be tied up by their heels and said "good-bye" to.
America will always have her problems but if we start watching and research who we try to put in office, 1) demand a certified BIRTH CERTIFICATE 2) how many law suits brought against them during their past and I could go on and on; WE NEED TO START DOING THINGS RIGHT!
Those of us on the Right would love to see a Black man as the President of the U.S., just not a Marxist/Obamunist liar, promoting vote cheating with confirmed cases in Nevada and 27 other states, I find it odd that the SEIU are the ones servicing the Voting Machines, typical. Two people in Florida already indicted for Voter Fraud, Illinois, they could not get the Military Ballots mailed, but they were able to get all the felons ballots, although none of the requested them…There are more felons in Illinois than Military in Cook County.
I may not be what you wrongly call a T-Bagger than an unintelligent ‘Lefty Liberal, but I am a strict Constitutionalist and agree with their message, nowhere in HISTORY has a county EVER spent its way out of an economical situation. In the Liberal/Moderate Dems who are now campaigning they would have NOT voted for the H/C had they known what was in the Bill. What a dumb a$$ thing to say, if you do not know, or have read the Bill…DO NOT VOTE on these Bills, then try to make stupid excuses.
I believe the GOLDEN DAYS were during the 1980’s, your so called “racism’ didn’t exist…After t he 9/11 attacks, the economy almost crashed, the DOW was down from 11,000 to 7,144..Bush by 2006 have more than doubled it to 14,454 (a record), a record low unemployment, paid off the two wars, record GDP…up till Congress changed hands in 2006…in which under Pelosi over $5 Trillion dollars have been spent up to this day. Congress makes law, not the President. Thank for starting the economic crash Barney Frank and Chris Dodd!
Patriot55 - You are delusional. We have never seen voting fraud like we did with Bush. See here.
This is well documented in many places.
If you were a really a strict Constitutionalist you wouldn't be making excuses for the corrupt lying fascist Bush regime. Warrantless wiretaps, illegal war, torture, patriot act, etc.
See here and here.
Many times in history countries have stimulated their economy to get out of recessions. Bush and Obama both knew this and acted accordingly.
Most liberal and moderate Dems did read the HC bill and knew what a valuable piece of legislation it is and continue to support it. Of course it didn't go far enough as we still need a public option but now people with pre-existing conditions can get insured and insurance companies can't drop you when you get sick. Congratulations America!
Racism didn't exist in the 80's?!? You had to have been blind in the 80's as there was rampant racism everywhere.
Bush didn't "pay off" two wars. He ran us into debt with those wars being unpaid for and his disastrous tax cuts being unpaid for as well. Then he crashed the economy with his many other blunders.
Here's an excerpt from an article in Time:
"George Bush is leaving the White House with a dismal economic record. By almost every measure — GDP growth, jobs, median incomes, financial-market performance — he stacks up as probably the least-successful President on the economic front since Herbert Hoover."
Read more here.
"Those of us on the Right would love to see a Black man as the President of the U.S., just not a Marxist/Obamunist liar..."
Put another way,
"We'd love to see a Black man as the President of the U.S., but first let's check to see if he's a witch first."
BEDEMIR: Tell me, what do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2: Burn!
CROWD: Burn, burn them up!
BEDEMIR: And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1: More witches!
VILLAGER #2: Wood!
BEDEMIR: So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of wood...?
BEDEMIR: Good!
CROWD: Oh yeah, yeah...
BEDEMIR: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEMIR: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah.
BEDEMIR: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No, no.
VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond!
BEDEMIR: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1: Cider!
VILLAGER #2: Great gravy!
VILLAGER #1: Cherries!
VILLAGER #2: Mud!
VILLAGER #3: Churches -- churches!
VILLAGER #2: Lead -- lead!
ARTHUR: A duck.
CROWD: Oooh.
BEDEMIR: Exactly! So, logically...,
VILLAGER #1: If... she.. weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood.
BEDEMIR: And therefore--?
VILLAGER #1: A witch!
CROWD: A witch!
Calling someone a Marxist, Communist, Socialist... or even better, drawing comparisons to Hitler (see Godwin's law) is the modern day witch hunt. The conversation instantly loses its collective IQ, and people stop talking about the issues and focus on attacking people.
First I would like to ask what color is the sky in jomama and Bob’s world today. BTW-Bob, can you spell your name backwards?
For the record…check the CBO and not the liberal media (who in the hell would ever believe the MSM…and still be sane..It is no longer news but ‘propaganda and opinion’) Bush left $480 Billion Dollars, the $700 Billion in TARP went to Obama, the bill was not passed until late September 2008.
Speaking of the CBO, the cost curve on NobamaCare is climbing at an alarming rate, it is considered completely unsustainable, only ‘four’ demcRATs have campaigned on H/C, every other Dem/Liberal/Progressive have not, nor will not even talk about it…one of the many “accomplishments’ obama twisted/bribed members of congress to go against the will of the majority of Americans…Sir, that is NOT an accomplishment!!
In Obama’s own book, he claims he was drawn to Socialists and Marxists, now he is acting like one, he may have been elected as President, but he has proved to the Country he is anything but…
The only time was happy about any part of the Wiki-Leaks this past week, was to prove there were indeed WMDs in Iraq.
Patriot55 - You said "Bush left $480 Billion Dollars, the $700 Billion in TARP went to Obama, the bill was not passed until late September 2008."
You made no point with that statement at all. Yes Bush and Obama both recognized the need for economic stimulus. It turned out costing us far less than the S&L crisis and we're getting a return on much of the money. Fantastic.
" the cost curve on NobamaCare is climbing at an alarming rate, it is considered completely unsustainable"
No, you made that up. The HC bill brings costs down while insuring 30 million more Americans. Also allows people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance and now companies can't drop you when you get sick. This is going to save a lot of lives.
More info here.
"only ‘four’ demcRATs have campaigned on H/C, every other Dem/Liberal/Progressive have not, nor will not even talk about it
Why would you campaign on HC? The bill already passed. Any Democrat is willing to discuss healthcare and the additional steps we need to take to catch up to other countries in that area.
"In Obama’s own book, he claims he was drawn to Socialists and Marxists, now he is acting like one, he may have been elected as President, but he has proved to the Country he is anything but…
You're one of those people that throw around words you don't understand and lower the intelligence of any debate. If you think Obama is acting like a socialist or Marxist you're a fool.
America has had many socialized institutions since it's founding but the new healthcare bill sadly did not socialize our healthcare. It would have been nice if it had.
You are very correct, JoeMama! The 2000 election was the biggest farce of my lifetime. Everyone should read an article, (you can find it on-line), and it is called: None Dare Call It Treason, written by Viincent Bulogsi. Mr. Bulogusi (sic) is a well known prosecutor out of California. Out of 103 murder trials, he lost one. He prosecuted Charles Manson. This article should be mandatory reading for everyone. The "Conservative" U.S. Supreme Court appointed bush w. President in 2000 just as sure as I am sitting here. It is truly unbelievable how this issue hardly got any press. We should have all been marching in the streets. For Sure!
Substitute big money for the state and you have something.
Joemama,
**You made no point with that statement at all. Yes Bush and Obama both recognized the need for economic stimulus. It turned out costing us far less than the S&L crisis and we're getting a return on much of the money. Fantastic.**
The point was Bush recognized they needed LOANS to get out of Frank’s mortgages meltdown that began the fall of the economy, not ‘stimulus’. All we heard from Obama for 20 months was “Shovel Ready Jobs”, only to hear him say this month, “There is no such thing as ‘shovel ready jobs.” ***What the hell was that?***
" the cost curve on NobamaCare is climbing at an alarming rate, it is considered completely unsustainable"
**No, you made that up. The HC bill brings costs down while insuring 30 million more Americans. Also allows people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance and now companies can't drop you when you get sick. This is going to save a lot of lives.**
I did not make up anything that is the truth! While only parts of the H/C Bill have gone into effect, the costs are already rising, so says the CBO. I agree that H/C needed reform, although I do not agree it needed to be completely changed or rob Medicare of $580 Billion to pay for part of the Bill. “Under health care reform, a projected 10% increase in costs in 2011…” http://businessservicenews.com/health-care-reform-plan-costs-to-increase/795354
So why did Congress and the Senate exempt themselves from the new health care bill, and well as the Administration.
Major corporations such as AT&T, McDonalds, Verizon, Boeing, Caterpillar…ect are all expected to drop health care coverage in favor of paying the per person penalty, forcing them all onto Obama’s $3,100.00 per person Government Plan, this will cause these corporations to actually save money, while driving up the cost into higher taxes. All you need do is to Google “companies dropping health coverage”.
For the first time in the history of the United States, the people are being ‘mandated’ (forced to pay the U.S. Government) for a product or service, simply unconstitutional.
**Why would you campaign on HC? The bill already passed. Any Democrat is willing to discuss healthcare and the additional steps we need to take to catch up to other countries in that area.**
Every candidate will always campaign on their ‘achievements’...always, with the exception of the so-called achievements which are not popular with the majority of Americans. There are an estimated 280,000 or more doctors and specialists expected to quit their practice or move overseas. My own Oncologist retired his practice due to the new health care bill, considered by his peers to be one of the best, now gone. None of the doctors want to accept Medicare patients by 2011, is it not only a 0 sum gain, but a loss per patient now.
**You're one of those people that throw around words you don't understand and lower the intelligence of any debate. If you think Obama is acting like a socialist or Marxist you're a fool.**
Have you even read his two books??? Well I have hear this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck
So where are all the jobs from almost a trillion dollars of tax payer money, and the unemployment rate "Stayed below 8%"??
It will not be a human being that saves us or condemns us. We all walk the path that is easiest for us. The road we follow is nor straight or narrow. There is a book that gives great guidance. It is not meant to be looked at as a rule, but is a good guide for individual use. We humans have distorted the true nature of being alive. Some of you will know of the story I speak of from the book that is rarely administered or even considered in ones daily living- if it is it is distorted or taught for self righteous and controlling reasoning.The Earth is a replica of this story, Sodom and Gomorrah. It's simple and yet we seek to blame others, when in reality each of us individually are responsible for our corrupt state. We will ignore this message and will continue with our so called comfortable progressive positions that we all seek > demi-gods, control of others, conceit, just the thought of being recognized for anything that puts oneself above others. We cannot humble ourselves to realize whatever put us here allows a human to make the decision to be and do and know right from wrong, but it never gave us the right to decide who lives or dies. So we all seek control to find our way to everlasting life, whatever mutany we can implore to create our imaginary eternity, we will continue til the death of all human beings with our antics of becoming a god. Look around those of you who can handle the truth. See if you can find a human who truly knows what they are and are happy with what they have. Oh you will find those who profess it, but like many and all humans they talk the talk but never create their own way of walk. Followers of what? Leaders of who? You are all human and nothing more! My father watches while we all destroy ourselves! Its simple listen with your eyes, mouth, ears shut! Now who do you have to blame? Half of us will agree with me and yet do nothing. Half of us will call me crazy so that we do not have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals! When will we put more worth into ourselves as individuals? One must stop looking outward and seek your life from within. We are all imperfect and that is what is killing us. We seek perfection in everyone around us, yet never expect it of ourselves or accept that the human in the mirror is the one to be fixed. Imagine if all humans woke up everyday and every minute of the day concentrated on themselves instead of trying to control what was never theres to control in the first place!, Our World would be a different planet! Humans are all in the image of there creator, yet all Humans want to be the creator- a trait that is obviously not in their makeup as a talent at all! Learn to control yourself and all will see no one will have the time to control others!
It will not be a human being that saves us or condemns us. We all walk the path that is easiest for us. The road we follow is nor straight or narrow. There is a book that gives great guidance. It is not meant to be looked at as a rule, but is a good guide for individual use. We humans have distorted the true nature of being alive.
Some of you will know of the story I speak of from the book that is rarely administered or even considered in ones daily living- if it is it is distorted or taught for self righteous and controlling reasoning.The Earth is a replica of this story, Sodom and Gomorrah. It's simple and yet we seek to blame others, when in reality each of us individually are responsible for our corrupt state. We will ignore this message and will continue with our so called comfortable progressive positions that we all seek > demi-gods, control of others, conceit, just the thought of being recognized for anything that puts oneself above others. We cannot humble ourselves to realize whatever put us here allows a human to make the decision to be and do and know right from wrong, but it never gave us the right to decide who lives or dies. So we all seek control to find our way to everlasting life, whatever mutany we can implore to create our imaginary eternity, we will continue til the death of all human beings with our antics of becoming a god. Look around those of you who can handle the truth. See if you can find a human who truly knows what they are and are happy with what they have. Oh you will find those who profess it, but like many and all humans they talk the talk but never create their own way of walk. Followers of what? Leaders of who? You are all human and nothing more! Its simple listen with your eyes, mouth, ears shut! Now who do you have to blame? Half of us will agree with me and yet do nothing. Half of us will call me crazy so that we do not have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals! When will we put more worth into ourselves as individuals? One must stop looking outward and seek your life from within. We are all imperfect and that is what is killing us. We seek perfection in everyone around us, yet never expect it of ourselves or accept that the human in the mirror is the one to be fixed. Imagine if all humans woke up everyday and every minute of the day concentrated on themselves instead of trying to control what was never theres to control in the first place!, Our World would be a different planet! Humans are all in the image of there creator, yet all Humans want to be the creator- a trait that is obviously not in their makeup as a talent at all! Learn to control yourself and all will see no one will have the time to control others!
It will not be a human being that saves us or condemns us. We all walk the path that is easiest for us. The road we follow is nor straight or narrow. There is a book that gives great guidance. It is not meant to be looked at as a rule, but is a good guide for individual use. We humans have distorted the true nature of being alive. Some of you will know of the story I speak of from the book that is rarely administered or even considered in ones daily living- if it is it is distorted or taught for self righteous and controlling reasoning.The Earth is a replica of this story, Sodom and Gomorrah. It's simple and yet we seek to blame others, when in reality each of us individually are responsible for our corrupt state. We will ignore this message and will continue with our so called comfortable progressive positions that we all seek > demi-gods, control of others, conceit, just the thought of being recognized for anything that puts oneself above others. We cannot humble ourselves to realize whatever put us here allows a human to make the decision to be and do and know right from wrong, but it never gave us the right to decide who lives or dies. So we all seek control to find our way to everlasting life, whatever mutany we can implore to create our imaginary eternity, we will continue til the death of all human beings with our antics of becoming a god. Look around those of you who can handle the truth. See if you can find a human who truly knows what they are and are happy with what they have. Oh you will find those who profess it, but like many and all humans they talk the talk but never create their own way of walk. Followers of what? Leaders of who? You are all human and nothing more! Its simple listen with your eyes, mouth, ears shut! Now who do you have to blame? Half of us will agree with me and yet do nothing. Half of us will call me crazy so that we do not have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals! When will we put more worth into ourselves as individuals? One must stop looking outward and seek your life from within. We are all imperfect and that is what is killing us. We seek perfection in everyone around us, yet never expect it of ourselves or accept that the human in the mirror is the one to be fixed. Imagine if all humans woke up everyday and every minute of the day concentrated on themselves instead of trying to control what was never theres to control in the first place!, Our World would be a different planet! Humans are all in the image of there creator, yet all Humans want to be the creator- a trait that is obviously not in their makeup as a talent at all! Learn to control yourself and all will see no one will have the time to control others!
It will not be a human being that saves us or condemns us. We all walk the path that is easiest for us. The road we follow is nor straight or narrow. There is a book that gives great guidance. It is not meant to be looked at as a rule, but is a good guide for individual use. We humans have distorted the true nature of being alive. Some of you will know of the story I speak of from the book that is rarely administered or even considered in ones daily living- if it is it is distorted or taught for self righteous and controlling reasoning.The Earth is a replica of this story, Sodom and Gomorrah. It's simple and yet we seek to blame others, when in reality each of us individually are responsible for our corrupt state. We will ignore this message and will continue with our so called comfortable progressive positions that we all seek > demi-gods, control of others, conceit, just the thought of being recognized for anything that puts oneself above others. We cannot humble ourselves to realize whatever put us here allows a human to make the decision to be and do and know right from wrong, but it never gave us the right to decide who lives or dies. So we all seek control to find our way to everlasting life, whatever mutany we can implore to create our imaginary eternity, we will continue til the death of all human beings with our antics of becoming a god. Look around those of you who can handle the truth. See if you can find a human who truly knows what they are and are happy with what they have. Oh you will find those who profess it, but like many and all humans they talk the talk but never create their own way of walk. Followers of what? Leaders of who? You are all human and nothing more! Its simple listen with your eyes, mouth, ears shut! Now who do you have to blame? Half of us will agree with me and yet do nothing. Half of us will call me crazy so that we do not have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals! When will we put more worth into ourselves as individuals? One must stop looking outward and seek your life from within. We are all imperfect and that is what is killing us. We seek perfection in everyone around us, yet never expect it of ourselves or accept that the human in the mirror is the one to be fixed. Imagine if all humans woke up everyday and every minute of the day concentrated on themselves instead of trying to control what was never theres to control in the first place!, Our World would be a different planet! Humans are all in the image of there creator, yet all Humans want to be the creator- a trait that is obviously not in their makeup as a talent at all! Learn to control yourself and all will see no one will have the time to control others!
It will not be a human being that saves us or condemns us. The road we follow is nor straight or narrow. There is a book that gives great guidance. It is not meant to be looked at as a rule, but is a good guide for individual use. We humans have distorted the true nature of being alive. Some of you will know of the story I speak of-The Earth is a replica of this story, Sodom and Gomorrah. It's simple and yet we seek to blame others, when in reality each of us individually are responsible for our corrupt state. We will ignore this message and will continue with our so called comfortable progressive positions that we all seek > demi-gods, control of others, conceit, just the thought of being recognized for anything that puts oneself above others. We cannot humble ourselves to realize whatever put us here allows a human to make the decision to be and do and know right from wrong, but it never gave us the right to decide who lives or dies. So we all seek control to find our way to everlasting life, whatever mutany we can implore to create our imaginary eternity, we will continue til the death of all human beings with our antics of becoming a god. Look around those of you who can handle the truth. See if you can find a human who truly knows what they are and are happy with what they have. Oh you will find those who profess it, but like many and all humans they talk the talk but never create their own way of walk. Followers of what? Leaders of who? You are all human and nothing more! Its simple listen with your eyes, mouth, ears shut! Now who do you have to blame? Half of us will agree with me and yet do nothing. Half of us will call me crazy so that we do not have to take responsibility for ourselves as individuals! When will we put more worth into ourselves as individuals? One must stop looking outward and seek your life from within. We are all imperfect and that is what is killing us. We seek perfection in everyone around us, yet never expect it of ourselves or accept that the human in the mirror is the one to be fixed. Imagine if all humans woke up everyday and every minute of the day concentrated on themselves instead of trying to control what was never theres to control in the first place!, Our World would be a different planet! Humans are all in the image of there creator, yet all Humans want to be the creator- a trait that is obviously not in their makeup as a talent at all! Learn to control yourself and all will see no one will have the time to control others!
To: eaglinmiller
All of what you said sounds good in theory, but it is "dream land" stuff. The way things are going in this world is, "How can I can get ahead even if it means being corrupt and breaking rules. Hence, regulation. There are a lot of good books out there beside the Bible that teaches us what is right and wrong.
Greed will always prevail. The notion that industry left unregulated will do the right thing is down right laughable.
What happens when the isms peddle unity as the Hegelain-Dialectic synthesis?
mn8 said...
What happens when the isms peddle unity as the Hegelain-Dialectic synthesis?
----------------
Are you trying to say you believe in the Hegelain-Dialectic "Theory" although I know those who believe in it will never call it a theory. I believe that is what Liberal Progressives would like, but any form or Marxism/Globalism will be fought vigorously.
The Hegelian dialectic presupposes the factual basis for the theory of social evolutionary principles, which coincidentally backed up Marx. Marx's Darwinian theory of the "social evolution of the species," (even though it has been used for a century to create a vast new scientific community, including eugenics and socio-economics), does not adhere to the basis for all good scientific research, and appears to exist mainly to advance itself, and all its sub-socio-scientific arms, as the more moral human science. To the ACL this means the entire basis for the communitarian solution is based on a false premise, because there is no FACTUAL basis that "social evolution of the species" exists.
The Hegelian dialectic is the ridiculous idea that constant conflict and continual merging of opposite ideologies, as established by extreme right or left belief systems, will lead spiritual mankind into final perfection. (Americans understood man's spiritual quests to be outside the realm of government control). Hegel's brilliance rests in his ability to confuse and obfuscate the true motives of the planners, and millions of people world-wide have been trying to make sense of why it doesn't work for over 150 years. But like the definition of insanity, the world keeps trying it over and over expecting different results.
It was tried in the 18th and 19th centuries in Great Briton.
"PatriotSS" why is it when anyone is politically left of Hitler "they're dirty Commies,etc." but you and the Republicans want an oligarchy of the rich and that's o.k.? Personally, I don't like either end of the spectrum but over-zealous drubbing does no one any good and only adds to idiocy. Why don't you show us some of the brains you have and follow a more studied rebuttal of those you disagree with.
@magistre, so you begin your post associating my user ID with “SS”, nice. mn8 asked a question with nothing else to go on..Nor did he reply to my question, so one must make the argument he was in favor of the Hegelain-Dialectic synthesis! There was absolutely NO drubbing of anyone, period! If there is an oligarchy in our politics today, it is not the Republicans. I see no corrupt self serving on their side; however I do see it on the Left (not so much on the Mainstream Democrats). The new Republicans are the party of less government; we are also The Party of ‘Know’.
Any person who has ever run a company, been in the mid to upper hierarchy (including a manager) knows that you cannot spend your way out of this mess we are in, which of course is exactly why we must not raise taxes on anyone. Under Obama our government has grown into a monstrosity, the largest ever along with monetizing our debt will only cause inflation or worse, hyper-inflation. This country is not over 50% Republican, yet opposition to ObamaCare, Cap and Trade, the Stimulus Bills are all opposed by the Majority of Americans, so why jam it down our throats?
As for Marxists or Communists, shall I make a list of those in the Administration who are, or have been associated with them? Van Jones admits to being a member of the CP-USA, several of his Czars are former SDS, Weather Underground, and other anti-social groups. Then there was Anita Dunn’s infamous speech to students when she says, “…two of my "favorite political philosophers" in a speech: Mother Teresa and... Mao Tse Tung, Dunn initially juxtaposes the two to make it a joke. "Not often coupled with each other," she says, to a few laughs, but then goes into a somewhat long history of Mao and Chiang Kai Shek in 1947 that's a little bit too bright, and a little too hagiographic. It suggests that she was in fact not joking that Mao is one of her favorite political philosophers.
I answer my critics with facts, nor do I believe any of my arguments are over-zealous drubbing or idiocy. Democrats shouted from the roof-tops when Bush’s Department of Homeland Security had permission to tap phone calls to suspected terrorists overseas. Now that it had been expanded to include Internet searches, emails, tracing cell phones and wiretapping all within our own borders, where is the outrage now? That my friend is much further than President Bush ever went with the DHS. It is imperative that we find the leak in the Pentagon regarding the hundreds of thousands of classified documents to Julian Assange, the ONLY good that has come of the leaks, was the proof that there were in fact WMDs in Iraq. Otherwise he (the one who leaked) should stand trial for Treason.
"Patriot" that was my whole point. You see nothing wrong with being a fascist.
Patriot55 - You said "Fascist is what we are now heading for under Obama and the Progressives…Are you sure you know what the word means?"
It doesn't look like you know what the word means. Obama and the progressives are not heading us towards fascism. Bush might have been.
Here's the definition: "a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy. Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined extreme right-wing political views along with collectivism. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right"
You also said "Government mandating we purchase Health Care at more than twice the cost is unconstitutional and another freedom goes away. We needed Health Care reform; it could have been done with current insurance companies rather than an unsustainable completely new system, one that will continue to rise in spending."
You demonstrate a fundamental lack of knowledge about the healthcare bill here. The bill does not mandate you buy insurance at twice the cost. In fact most people can keep their current insurance.
Also the reform was in fact done with current insurance companies. They aren't going away. The system is not completely new at all.
Also estimates are that the bill will decrease the deficit.
Big bonus: Insurance companies can't drop you now when you get sick and people with pre-existing conditions can no buy insurance.
Most American’s want Government out of their lives
You're right, most Americans were against Bush's warrantless wiretaps, Patriot Act, legislating who people are allowed to marry, etc.
"since Obama has been in office, there are 11, 700 new regulations…utterly ridiculous by any standard."
To say that's ridiculous you'd need to first back that number up with evidence, see what the regulations are, and then compare it to recent past presidents. As is, it is meaningless.
"Look at what the EU are saying, they are cutting government spending and reforming pensions, as their economies are making progress, they are angry with the Obama Administration wondering why we are not doing the same."
This you made up entirely. Please link to the EU being angry with Obama for not cutting spending and reforming pensions.
Patriot55 - You said "Fascist is what we are now heading for under Obama and the Progressives…Are you sure you know what the word means?"
It doesn't look like you know what the word means. Obama and the progressives are not heading us towards fascism. Bush might have been.
Here's the definition: "a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy. Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined extreme right-wing political views along with collectivism. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right"
You also said "Government mandating we purchase Health Care at more than twice the cost is unconstitutional and another freedom goes away. We needed Health Care reform; it could have been done with current insurance companies rather than an unsustainable completely new system, one that will continue to rise in spending."
You demonstrate a fundamental lack of knowledge about the healthcare bill here. The bill does not mandate you buy insurance at twice the cost. In fact most people can keep their current insurance.
Also the reform was in fact done with current insurance companies. They aren't going away. The system is not completely new at all.
Also estimates are that the bill will decrease the deficit.
Big bonus: Insurance companies can't drop you now when you get sick and people with pre-existing conditions can no buy insurance.
Most American’s want Government out of their lives
You're right, most Americans were against Bush's warrantless wiretaps, Patriot Act, legislating who people are allowed to marry, etc.
"since Obama has been in office, there are 11, 700 new regulations…utterly ridiculous by any standard."
To say that's ridiculous you'd need to first back that number up with evidence, see what the regulations are, and then compare it to recent past presidents. As is, it is meaningless.
"Look at what the EU are saying, they are cutting government spending and reforming pensions, as their economies are making progress, they are angry with the Obama Administration wondering why we are not doing the same."
This you made up entirely. Please link to the EU being angry with Obama for not cutting spending and reforming pensions.
My reply to magistre from today is now gone, perhaps your double posting of the same post erased a very good post in which I also quoted the definition of fascism, and not yours from a wiki site, where most average people can insert their own ideals and definitions.
www.euractiv.com/en/financial-services/g20-agrees-disagree-search-lasting-recovery-news-495640
Read “Europe claims victory
Great Briton, Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain are all doing better than the U.S. in their economies, one of the main reasons is cutting spending in half, while we increase ours. Almost every EU nation agreed at the G20 Summit to cut spending and implement austerity measures, at which Obama snubbed them for those measures. If you are not getting what the E.U. is doing, stop watching and reading State Run Media, they will not report such things which may damage their man-child.
Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator, or wanting to have complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, Media, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism.
ObamaCare costs $3,100.00 dollars per year per employee to companies already providing insurance; most have determined the cost to too high and find it cheaper to pay the penalties. Those already announced to move away from Government Health Care are; Boeing, AT&T, Verizon, John Deere, Whole Foods Market, Marriott International, Qualcomm, and Wal-Mart with over 2 Million employees are considering doing the same. In the place of Government insurance, they are incentivizing their employees by giving them what they normally pay in monthly insurance premiums. The Fortune Company I have retired from has grandfathered the insurance we left upon retirement, we pay absolutely no co-pays on Doctor Visits, or on medications, the E.R. is completely free, and not to mention, 90-95% of all out of pocket medical expenses. Now they are cutting their on their benefits to what ObamaCare would cost. ObamaCare also mandates that if one does not wish to have insurance, they must buy equal to what the government recommends, or get on the government plans.
Liberals talk constantly about the “Rich Insurance Companies”, however the average Health Insurance Company only makes 2.2% profit, and these are CBO numbers from 1990 through 2008.
We also do not need Cap and Trade to further destroy more of American Industry (most of which is unionized), our air quality has improved over 400% since the 1970’s era. Do you actually believe China, Russia, and other developed nations will join the other counties in favor of similar pollution controls? NO, they will not, especially South America…Remember all those off-shore rigs Obama put a moratorium on (which cost us another 130,000 jobs), guess where many of them went? Many of those who moved are now drilling in deeper waters off the coast of Brazil.
You said in your post: “You're right, most Americans were against Bush's warrantless wiretaps, Patriot Act, legislating who people are allowed to marry, etc.”
*What you forgot to mention, is the fact that Obama now uses warrantless wiretaps ‘domestically’, follows your emails, tracks your cell phones. What is worse is, this never was a Congressional Bill and is now being fought in the Courts and will end up in the Supreme Court.
*The President does not have the authority to legislate, only Congress can write laws, so YOU now show me where Bush legislated which people are allowed to marry.
"since Obama has been in office, there are 11, 700 new regulations…utterly ridiculous by any standard."
“To say that's ridiculous you'd need to first back that number up with evidence, see what the regulations are, and then compare it to recent past presidents. As is, it is meaningless.”
**The numbers come from the FOIA and your proof otherwise is what?
What really frightens me? I believe you Liberal/Progressives believe in what you hear without any real facts.
I have things to do, so Masalama Sidke
Patriot55 - You said "Great Briton, Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain are all doing better than the U.S. in their economies, one of the main reasons is cutting spending in half, while we increase ours. Almost every EU nation agreed at the G20 Summit to cut spending and implement austerity measures, at which Obama snubbed them for those measures."
Your own link disagrees with you.
Your link says "They left room for countries to move at their own pace and adopt "differentiated and tailored" policies that match national economic or political priorities, a sharp reversal from the unity of the previous three crisis-era G20 summits.
The G20, which includes emerging economic powers as well as the developed economies where the economic trouble started, united last year to throw trillions of dollars into the battle against recession.
But that unity has begun to fray as countries emerge from crisis at different speeds and with different policy needs. Emerging Asian economies such as China have come roaring back, while the US recovery remains tepid and Europe lags behind."
So in summary your links says Europe lags behind, each country is tailoring their solution, and all agreed stimulating the economy was necessary last year. I love it when people prove themselves wrong.
"Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator, or wanting to have complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, Media, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism."
That doesn't resemble what we are doing now. Closer to what Bush was doing. Fascism is after all a right wing thing.
"ObamaCare costs $3,100.00 dollars per year per employee to companies already providing insurance; most have determined the cost to too high and find it cheaper to pay the penalties."
Wrong. Please come up to speed on the actual facts of the healthcare bill.
"We also do not need Cap and Trade to further destroy more of American Industry"
Sure we do. We need to further minimize pollution while creating a larger market for alternative energy and efficiency.
"*What you forgot to mention, is the fact that Obama now uses warrantless wiretaps ‘domestically’, follows your emails, tracks your cell phones."
So we can assume you were horrified when Bush started all this right?
"The President does not have the authority to legislate, only Congress can write laws, so YOU now show me where Bush legislated which people are allowed to marry."
Bush calls for ban on same-sex marriages.
"**The numbers come from the FOIA and your proof otherwise is what?"
Link to numbers from the FOIA please? Also add in other presidents.
"What really frightens me? I believe you Liberal/Progressives believe in what you hear without any real facts."
No, we don't. That's why I'm asking you to back up the things you make up with facts or supply facts that debunk you.
@jomama
"Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator, or wanting to have complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, Media, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism."
That doesn't resemble what we are doing now. Closer to what Bush was doing. Fascism is after all a right wing thing. My above definition of Fascism comes from several dictionaries, including a definition from the Library of Congress.
Fascism is NOT always a ‘right wing’ “thing”. This is nothing more than academia changing history, and trying to pound into the minds of our youth for many years, that Hitler was also Right Wing, nothing can be further from the truth. Hitler took his cues from Joseph Stalin, they were in constant communications discussing the pros of Communism for several years, till Hitler became paranoid that Stalin might try and take Germany.
The Right does not believe in Nationalism, Hitler did:
http://www.germanculture.com.ua/library/history/bl_hitler_rise_of_nazi.htm
Wrong. Please come up to speed on the actual facts of the healthcare bill.
In Harry Reid’s on words, dated Octber 28, 2010, instead you using an out of date slanted unreliable CNN, especially an article dated 10 months old, have a look at this:
http://www.itsonalexa.com/health/reid-health-care-reform-bill-increases-premiums-by-3100-yearly-and-funds-abortion.html
"We also do not need Cap and Trade to further destroy more of American Industry"
Sure we do. We need to further minimize pollution while creating a larger market for alternative energy and efficiency.
You really should do something about the brainwashing you have been through, pollution un the U.S. have decreased by about 60% over this 30 year period, ending in 2008…From the Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics, backed up by NOAA and may Universities, even the CRU has stated it intentionally use fabricated data.
"*What you forgot to mention, is the fact that Obama now uses warrantless wiretaps ‘domestically’, follows your emails, tracks your cell phones."
So we can assume you were horrified when Bush started all this right?
Bush was ONLY doing International to domestic taps, I am quite happy with the results the Bush DHS accomplished, however…Obama is doing it domestic to domestic as well, a far cry from what he more savvy Bush was doing.
Obama can claim some minor victories in stopping Islamic Terror, but only by luck, The Christmas Day Bomber tried and failed. The Times Square Bomber failed due to malfunction in the detonation process.
The Untied States Border Patrol has proof that 1 in 50 illegal’s crossing our border are Islam extremists, so good idea allowing them to come in unabated.
To the call for banning same-sex marriages, I fully agree with that notion. I have several Gay friends who also disagree with same-sex marriage. What is the use if they cannot procreate the species, even you buddy, Darwin agreed with that synopsis.
Finally, I paid for the FOIA act documents, if you wish me to share them, send me a check for all the ones I requested in the amount of $65.00.
A lot of disinformation here. While there was discourse between Hitler and Stalin it only lasted until the Germans invaded Russia. And as far as getting funding and orders those were supplied to him by Prescott Bush, head of the U.S. branch of the German Bank. Bush was indicted under the Enemies and Sedition Act in 1943. He was perfectly willing to supply Hitler for his bosses who were identified by General Smedley Butler when they tried to "over-throw" F.D.R. in the 30's. Fascism isn't so much a way of acting as it is a way of thinking(or not thinking).
Prescott Bush deserved what he did, if in fact the evidence was actually true, as we have seen from many trials (especially those by our corrupt Att. General Holder), then so be it…However someone needed to get FDR out of office, regardless of who it was. Unfortunately he died before the trials could begin. He extended the Great Depression by 10 years, and would have been longer had Japan not committed war against the U.S., in which he told William Leahy, chief of staff, ‘Damn, this is going to destroy my completion of socializing the country”.
Obama’s contributions to Hezbollah and Hamas, plus Obama’s animus against Israel (which caused 68% of American Jews crossed over from the Democrats to Republicans).
Then Obama and Columbia U. were found guilty of the CIA Columbia University Sedition and Treason, citizens trials are heard by accredited Judges and Jurors.
http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/10/30/c-i-a-columbia-obama-sedition-and-treason-trial-transcripts/
It sets up a series of Federal Trials once out of office, along with many other counts to be added, they will also include Eric Holder and so many others.
All we true Constitutional Americans want is to keep Government out of our lives, as intended, we believe in a small government for the people and by the people. Our Government, including both Houses was never meant to have lifetime very high salaries and lifetime benefits. No one with the exception of the President should make more than $75,000 per year, and the same insurance we the people have access to!!
NO IMMIGRANTS should receive citizenship without going through proper channels, just as our forefathers came here. Sanctuary Cities are illegal and cost a great deal of money, illegal immigrant criminals should be held and tried and not let out of jail/prisons back into our population.
Stop Federal Judges from legislating law from the bench, it is not in their job description, put a stop to the attempts at globalism and global currency, dismantle and withdraw from the corrupt U.N. Hold journalists to previous standards, no less than two “reliable sources” before filing any news item.
Stop the Czars, they by law are not supposed to have any power other than being a temporary advisor to the President, and to be replaced by appointments who go through Congressional hearings. Stop teachers from teaching anything other than a ‘normal’ curriculum, de-unionize teachers and stop Tenure.
Start doing things in government according to the law and constitution, period.
I hope everyone goes to truthout.com and reads an op-ed by William Rivers Pitt called, "A Fraction of a Man." Pitt can read my mind!
Richard D. Wolff (born April 1942, Youngstown, Ohio) is an American economist, well-known for his work on Marxian economics, economic methodology and class analysis.
*Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._Wolff
William Rivers Pitt:
*Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x568366
I looked at the advisers, writers, staff, they are all left leaning, the two above are just a couple of the many I looked up. The site claims to have no bias, will they say anything?
Thanks for pointing out the site, I know to avoid it in the future, with the exception of using it to discredit the stories.
There was a show on Genetics on the Discovery Channel, (NOT KIDDING) found a gene in the Liberal Progressives, although they consider it to be an abnormal gene and have found a way to correct the dysfunctioning gene. (Modern Marvels)
To Patriot! A defective gene? Are you high? The GOP are the ones with the mental problems. Sociopaths. They don't care about anyone but themselves. Look "Liberal" up in the dictionary. "Open minded". I was raised that way and raised my children that way. You pick and choose your facts. In TruthOut - that was an opinion about bushtard. If the GOP would only know how much respect they would get if they came out an admitted what a failure he was. And you obviously didn't read a lot when visiting TruthOut. There are just as many conservative articles. Again, quit picking and choosing!
@JoyFullOne, why do you believe only one side can be correct? And, no…I do not use drugs, don’t need anything but reality. My now grown children are constantly complimented for their decorum, their charity, work ethic, and honesty. Liberal from the dictionary is politics is ‘not’ what the description in this administration now means. I am a Conservative Libertarian; I enjoy watching the ex-Consumer Activist turned Libertarian John Stossle, and his stories on how he had been duped all those years at ABC.
Not only am I an avid reader (5-6 books per month…I do speed, but not so fast as to miss anything), also have every World Almanac since 1970…Interesting when you go back and look at our spending, housing, wages, taxes and so on…But I really did enjoy the Federalist Papers, The Road to Serfdom (A.J. Heyak), “The Coming Insurrection”, Soros’s “The Shadow Government” and so many more, but my first love is History, not what is now being taught in schools and Universities, actual history.
Other than my military service in the Marines, I worked 17 years of my 37 overseas, six years in the Libyan Sarah, lived, worked and visited 60 of the 103 countries where we have international locations. I spent 8 months in a Libyan Prison, while on the 2,000 mile trip from the desert to Tripoli (volunteered for the trip for a chance to get home a week early), stopped for fuel in Sidra and witnessed an auto accident on the coastal highway. Was asked if I would tell the police what I saw, and quickly agreed. Only to be taken into a dank room, although I had all my proper papers (including my Libyan Drivers License), was accused of being an Interpol Spy. The prison cell in Sidra only had dirt floor, no bed, no toilet, I was beaten and tortured most every day with the exception of being chained to a steel chair in the hole. I had been water-boarded in military training, so that was nothing when they tried. There were many beatings, electrical torture, toenails and fingernails pulled out, teeth slowly pulled out, broken nose and jaw, several ribs, too much to list.
It was decided I would hang in Green Square in Tripoli, in front of Gadhafi’s palace; it was on my way to the Tripoli prison till the hanging, when I was rescued and smuggled to Malta, where I healed enough to get to England (where I held dual citizenship) I was accepted into the E.R. as a British citizen. A Medical advisor came to my multi-bed room only to be told they could reset a few bones, but the surgeries I needed were too expensive, so with still broken bones and ribs, I was able to get a bottle of Oxycontin and made my way home, an ambulance was waiting for me at the international terminal, and was critical by the time they got me to the hospital.
Part 2: I had a good and decent Arab lawyer who was able to get me back into the country and meet with Gadhafi and allowed to work there again ( 1-1/2 years later). Just a little history, I had received permission from the Bush State Department to write publish my book in December 2008, however after it was finished, I received a call from Hillary’s State Department that they needed to read the manuscript before allowing it to go to the publisher. I was denied, they checked my footnotes to their authenticity with Libya, Egypt, and Malta, and told me it was too sensitive at this point, last week I tried again, and still denied. I may just publish anyway, what are they going to do to me, put me in jail? I had already had to pay back the advance, but they still want to publish.
To this day I have many Muslim friends from several countries and here in the U.S., as I already knew from history, they agree the Mosque at Ground Zero is indeed a Victory Mosque.
As for Obama this past week at the G-20, he was put down, shut down, and criticized for once again trying to devalue the dollar. Why does he keep trying to print currency, has he still not realized you cannot SPEND your way out of a bad economy, is he that dense? Personally, I do not believe he has a clue.
I do not understand your “hatred” for President Bush, seeing him on television again, and having already read his book. He gave us a great economy, unemployment for most of his term under 5%, it only became a big problem after the liberals took over in 2007 and 2008,with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd ruining the housing market. Which caused the mortgage crisis, and Bush got TARP in September 2008, it was to LOAN money to stabilize banks and mortgage companies, and GM. At least Bush was a good honest man, unlike the mistruths and blame game obama plays.
To Jeanie, Good point on the religious thing. It shouldn't be brought up in politics. It is a personal thing, who and when we worship. But as for this President dividing our country, you got that wrong. The media is. The media wasn't this way during bushtards term. If anyone questioned him, they were unpatriotic. Shame on the media. And shame on anyone who falls for that crap.
Amen Bob!
JoyFulOne, Personally I am missing the comment to a “Jeanie” and Bob hasn’t posted since October 28th. However I do agree that (and you have not seen me do it) is keeping Religion out of Political discussions, although it is inescapable if one is talking about our Founders, The Bill of Rights, or the Constitution of the United States of America. But I will venture into one question regarding religion and politics in a question, have YOU read the Qur’an (as most Americans spell it Koran)? “Shall a believer come across a man of another faith, and not willing to openly commit to embrace Islam; ye shall own him at your behest or kill him if he does not obey.”
After the Democrats took control of Congress in 2007, the Mainstream Media ripped Bush a new one, they ripped him at every turn during the wars. Although even the biggest Bush malcontent ever, Paul Krugman once quipped, “If the man wasn’t so damned honest, I would like nothing more than to wrap my hands around his throat.” It has been since 2008, the Media will not report honestly about Obama, he has them in the palm of his hand.
As for Obama, he has Czars (34 still there), they are only used till a position is filled, the time line for a so-called Czar is supposed to be two to four months, but he knew even Democrats would not vote them into office, so he has kept them and given them powers the constitution prohibits. He has more Czars than Russia beginning with Ivan III in 1462, Vasili III till 1533, Ivan IV (Ivan the Terrible) till Nicholas II 11868-1918.
You people are ridiculous! What on earth are you doing sitting here and talking and bashing each others opinions of politics! Do you honestly expect to change someone's views this way? {honestly...} All your doing is helping divide this nation into 2 parties even more than it already is. The party system is the most corrupt system in America and should be abolished. Shame on you for putting down our president and congress. Shame on you for telling everyone how to do their job. Shame on you America for not respecting those who lead.
Grow up and get involved. Talk to people with an open mind. If you are so convinced that your way is right then listen to those with opposing views. You will learn something.
Frankly my political view points are void at this point. I hate the media, next to the party system they don't know honest when it is in front of their faces. They have been given the ability to change everything however they see fit. To rely on the media read multiple source with varying view points...ie a conservative, a liberal and a neutral media source. What good is it to only read from conservative sources? {or liberal}
Before you respond think about your news sources. How many varying sources do you read? How often? Do YOU seek truth in these stories or do you take them at their word?
bushtard had CZARS too, but no one talked about them. As for religion, it has nothing to do with the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. It was a US Supreme Court decision.
Oh, and I don't know who blogged it, but the so called NY mosque is not a mosque and all. It is a community center. See how the main stream media brainwashes?
One last thing. And it cracks me up. After the bushtard years, no one claims to be a Republican anymore. All the sudden there are Conservatives and Teabaggers, etc.
No, no, this is the last thing. The Dems didn't take control in 2006. There were 49 Dem, 49 Rep, and 2 Independents. From 2006 to 2008, Congress was lame duck, big time.
Yes, yes, Bush, Clinton, and hell most Presidents have one to three until an appointment can be made, none of the past Presidents kept them more than four months, and filled the positions through Congressional hearings as a President should. Presidential Czars are “short term only” and cannot make or dictate/enforce policy, period!! They can only advise to the president or to the other departments in the ‘Existing Government’.
From the Declaration of Independence: IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
The Ground Zero Community Center “Shall have a Mosque atop the buildings highest floor”
As for the Term “Teabaggers” is an obscene, homosexual act, many ‘News Readers’ and reporters have been told NOT to use the term, and to apologize had they done so, the exception is MSNBC and the Ed Show on CNN (where one can express their trash talk). The first time I heard about the act, I had to look it up on the internet…I suppose they have personal knowledge of it on MSNBC.
Regarding your incorrect statement on the Senate being 49-49, do not forget that the independents caucus with the Democrats, thus 51-49, and Congress was NOT lame duck, Democrats held all committee positions during the years 2007 and 2008, w/Barney Frank being the Chairman of the House Ways and Means committee, a.k.a Freddie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the mortgage banks!
Yes, yes, Bush, Clinton, and hell most Presidents have one to three until an appointment can be made, none of the past Presidents kept them more than four months, and filled the positions through Congressional hearings as a President should. Presidential Czars are “short term only” and cannot make or dictate/enforce policy, period!! They can only advise to the president or to the other departments in the ‘Existing Government’.
From the Declaration of Independence: IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
The Ground Zero Community Center “Shall have a Mosque atop the buildings highest floor”
As for the Term “Teabaggers” is an obscene, homosexual act, many ‘News Readers’ and reporters have been told NOT to use the term, and to apologize had they done so, the exception is MSNBC and the Ed Show on CNN (where one can express their trash talk). The first time I heard about the act, I had to look it up on the internet…I suppose they have personal knowledge of it on MSNBC.
Regarding your incorrect statement on the Senate being 49-49, do not forget that the independents caucus with the Democrats, thus 51-49, and Congress was NOT lame duck, Democrats held all committee positions during the years 2007 and 2008, w/Barney Frank being the Chairman of the House Ways and Means committee, a.k.a Freddie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the mortgage banks!
To Patriot! Yes, we do exactly that. We either vote for or against a person in our towns, in our states, and in our federal government. No Czar can make law, they are advisors to the President.
To Patriot! Yes, we do exactly that. We either vote for or against a person in our towns, in our states, and in our federal government. No Czar can make law, they are advisors to the President.
And I remember very well when bush lied to Congress and to the American people, straight faced, about Iraq having WMD. I know it was BS the minute I heard about it because I knew the history of Bush Sr. and his relationship with Iraq. I also remember very clearly that if anyone in the media questioned that decision, they were called un-patriotic. Remember it like it was yesterday.
To: Patriotic. The 2006-2008 was the lamest Congress in my 51 year lifetime. The 2 biggest bills that passed during that time were the minimum wage bill and the Lilly Leddbetter bill. The ONLY reason the GOP voted for a minimum wage hike was they were sucking hind teat! If it was up to them, everyone would still be making $0.50 an hour. I am a C-Span junkie and watched it very closely during that time.
@JoyFulOne…You completely missed the point I was making, the Declaration of Independence clearly states that our Rights come from God, and I love this phrase:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their ‘Creator’ with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
As for WMD’s, Congress reviewed all Intel, U.S. and aboard (U.K., Mossad, Saudis, France…ect…) and **43** Democrats voted for the war in Iraq, plus the majority of Democrats in the Senate. The ONLY ILLEGAL WAR we have been in was Clinton going into Somalia without the consent of Congress; remember the phrase “Wag the Dog”???
According to the Wiki-Leaks documents, they did indeed find WMD’s in Iraq (Tons of banned Chemical Weapons) including many traces of Yellow Cake Uranium, there were sent to Syria to avoid detection. Russia helped the Syrians build a Nuclear Weapons plant, which the Israelis took out with their F-16’s and Bunker Buster Bombs.
I too watch both C-Span channels, even record many on DVR if I cannot be around for live viewing. Since Obamunist took over, it has been sickening, no discussions allowed by Democrats on any Bill, no one knowing what were in most of the Bills passed. When asked about ObamaCare, Pelosi even said on television, “You will need to read the Bill to know what’s in it…” When asked had she read it, she replied that she had not gotten around to reading it yet!!!
If you wish to have a debate/discussion, you need to reply to comments, young lady.
The WORST Congress in history got their butts kicked out of office this year.
JoyFulOne, You're going to disturb PatriotSS with all this reality. He's a mental fascist and insists that "reality" is his to define and since he begins each discourse with the assertion: "I'm always right and because you challenge my world-view you admit that not only are you wrong but your also a Commie,lying,rat-bastard,etc". You'll never dissuade mental fascists from their frantically held beliefs.
Very well said Magistre. Patriot might be a selective history buff, but he is not living in the real world. Actually that is the main problem with the GOP. They are living in the past and keep trying to stay there. Does anyone out there think that our Founding Fathers would every believe that they would look up in the sky and see a skyscraper or an airplane and then one day a terrorist would fly the plane into the skyscraper? Do you think that would have envisioned money changing hands at a key stroke. The answer is no. This is 2010 guys.
Yes, 43 Democrats voted for invading Iraq. AFTER THEY WERE LIED TOO! After 9.11 many people would have believed anything. We were full of fear and anger and bushtard and cheney, (you know they guys, the war criminals and mass murderers), played on our fears and anger. We might as well sent a gold embossed invitation to the world to invade us if they think we have WMD's. Irag was not then, nor are they now a threat to the United States. We ONLY go to war to defend our freedom. I support our troops, but they did NOT die for our country. It just feels good saying it!
The Democrats did NOT get their butts kicked in Congress young man, they still control the Senate. And the people the voted for Republicans in the House have short term memories. They just handed back the keys to the same idiots that drove us in to this near depression. They are Fox News Zombies and they believe that since the unemployment rate is still at ten percent it is the Dems fault. Took 8 long nightmarish years to get us in to the CF, its going to take more than 2 years to get us out. Again, if you look back in history, the economy and stock market has always done better under Democrat rule. And find some new material. I am old enough to know that every time a Democrat is in the White House, there is talk of Socialism. Biggest joke in politics.
Young man”, thanks but I doubt you are older than I. Somehow I doubt that you remember the execution of the Korean War, or when Kennedy failed to support the guaranteed U.S. assistance to support Cubans to oust Castro, which started the 13 days of October. He did not even let them know the support was not coming, and allowed tens of thousands to die. I was in favor of him trying to pull our soldiers out of Vietnam, and driving to Dallas just to get to see him in person, only to see him assassinated. Yes, I was a Democrat…that changed under Carter.
You and magisre (Maoists) can call me names all day long, only Liberals are correct, huh? The 43 Democrats in the Senate (and many more in Congress also voted for the war in Iraq). NEWS FLASH, WMDs are NOT ONLY NUKEs. Saddam killed 400,000 of his own people to test poison gas, of which our troops found tons, literally. Yeah, according to Left Wing-nut news pundits tell us that obama is just too intelligent for us to understand, that my friend is a pant-load of crap. He even lied about being a Professor at Harvard, look it up. He also lied about being at Columbia University; he was never there as Columbia testified under oath. There are now ongoing investigations into why Columbia U. faked his classes, and his fake diploma from there.
As for magistre’s comment: “JoyFulOne, You're going to disturb PatriotSS with all this reality. He's a mental fascist and insists that "reality" is his to define and since he begins each discourse with the assertion: "I'm always right and because you challenge my world-view you admit that not only are you wrong but your also a Commie,lying,rat-bastard,etc". You'll never dissuade mental fascists from their frantically held beliefs.”
But there was one true statement in your comment: “You'll never dissuade mental fascists from their frantically held beliefs.”…namely you and your kind. can be counted on to use foul language and slanderous comments, you have become the Keith Olbermann of the internet. “All trash talk, all the time.” What branches of the Military were you a part of…didn’t enlist did you!!!
To Patotic. My parents met in the Korean War and I am 51. Don't assume!
How many times do I have to say it. The Democrats, Republicans, Independents were LIED to in order for bushtard/cheney to invade Iraq. That was the most needless war in my lifetime and my children's and grandchildren's. Don't blame ANYONE for that CF. bushtard/cheney played on our anger and fears. Read the 9/11 Commission Report. When you have to change the excuse for invading a country 3 times, makes one want to scratch his ass. Mission Accomplished? Remember that? God, for anyone on God's green earth to defend that war criminal and mass murderer belong in general population at their nearest prison.
PATRIOTSS: You prove our point.
JoyFulOne, I knew your age was 51...you mentioned it an earlier post, oh did you forget? What else have you forgotten regarding your stubborn points. Stop getting your news from MediaMatters, Huffington Post, Daily Kos, which are about as honest as the so-called Mainstream Media. Yes I am somewhat your elder.
I am quite old enough to receive SSI, Medicare, and Medicare Part D, but never filed. I was automatically sent a Social Security Check, I sent it back with a note to keep the people's money...I don't give a damn how many years I paid into those "Welfare Funds which keep getting robbed by the Government".
I have better Insurance than the Government could ever provide for me, my company took care of that after retirement for life (a Non-Union Corporation).
JoyFulOne said; "How many times do I have to say it. The Democrats, Republicans, Independents were LIED to in order for bushtard/cheney to invade Iraq." Ya think so??? Then you are calling the 9/11 commision LIARS!
magistre, not sure if that is your given surname, however it keeps coming up with a strange description:
هو اسم ابنة الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم و هو بمعنى الأرتقاء و السمو و هو بمعنى اخر فتاة راقية من عائلة ملكية راقية
I refuse to respond to any of your requests until you get my moniker correct, on top of that, you have yet to prove or source anything you have said, period. Nor have you answered any of my direct questions or have yet to disprove anything I have said.
Back to JoyFulOne’s November 18 2010 2:55pm “To: Patriotic. The 2006-2008 was the lamest Congress in my 51 year lifetime. There is NO such word as “Lamest”, or is that now part of Orwell’s New Speak, along with Quantitative Easing as a way to the Fed will print money we do not have and cause the devaluation of the dollar; War on Terror is now called ‘Overseas Contingency Operation’, or Man-Caused Disaster; It is no longer called “Global Warning” but now ‘Global Climate Change’’ only because “Anthropogenic Global Warming” did not work… Undocumented People/Worker, took the place of Illegal Alien; “Employee Free Choice Act” is now ‘Force Unionism’; “The Internet Freedom Preservation Act” is anything but freedom; “Militant, right-wing” now means ‘anyone who is not a Liberal or votes Republican’; The term "growth friendly deficit reduction" can only be the sugar-coated newspeak phrase for ‘Tax Increases’, Ideas, targeted-- Early 2010, many Americans discovered that Stimulus was another word for ‘Pork-Barrel Spending’
Hell, I could fill this page with all the new-speak to confuse normal Americans, but we continue to educate the populous. I would be hard pressed to leave this jewel out:
Community organizer-- a person who tries to circumvent the democratic election process to gain power. To quote Saul Alinsky: "Power and organization are one and the same". Usually a person who is incapable of leading a life of productivity and who tries to make people support his lifestyle by giving them the warm and fuzzy feeling of community. Closely related to the labor union leader.
Please get a grip on reality!!
Call it what you want. From 2006 to 2008 no major legislation was passed. A bunch of Post Offices were named if that is important to you. To say that the Democrats had a majority in Congress during that time is a joke. bush got writer's cramp vetoing everything that crossed his desk. Again, please don't defend bush, I would have so much more respect for you.
Patriot: Precisely!
Let us see, Patriot55, for your arguments you use your own opinion as fact. You automatically slander any one you disagree with. Why should anyone take you seriously? When you grow up then we will treat you as a grown up.
magistre said...
JoyFulOne, You're going to disturb PatriotSS with all this reality. He's a mental fascist and insists that "reality" is his to define and since he begins each discourse with the assertion: "I'm always right and because you challenge my world-view you admit that not only are you wrong but your also a Commie,lying,rat-bastard,etc". You'll never dissuade mental fascists from their frantically held beliefs.
November 19, 2010 12:34 PM
You call me a person who slanders, find fine my commcnets as I did yours above.
Does your mother know you are on her computer? Oh, and I forgot you do not speak Arabic, sorry…
Oh…I guess I could come back with some silly quips such as, “What color is the sky in your world today” but what I would really enjoy is to invite you to dinner and set down to a nice meal and have a pleasant discussion, what do you say, to a face to face meeting of the minds.
I have been emailing comments from you and JoyLessOne, not using your I.D.’s or which site we are on, but both my Democratic and Republican friends are have a grand ole laugh, as my British friend said, “Is he completely mental?”.
buyer be wear of the dummy we let in office this time we need to bac and repeat a little history lesten to our selves and our children
Our plane got in last night, just had a few seconds to wish everyone a very Happy Thanksgiving.
Patriot55 - You said "have YOU read the Qur’an (as most Americans spell it Koran)? “Shall a believer come across a man of another faith, and not willing to openly commit to embrace Islam; ye shall own him at your behest or kill him if he does not obey.”
You should try reading the bible sometime. All sort of crazy violent hateful stuff in these old religious books.
Your comment to Patriot that starts with - "Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator...hit the nail on the head. I have said it more than once that Patriot has a selective memory. He is living in the past, (the 30's and 40's), and thinks things should be the same. Our founding Fathers, in their wildest dreams could have envisioned the world we live in today. Back than a hand shake was a contract and the only things that flew in the sky were birds. And I don't think that they would have thought that planes would be used as bombs. As for healthcare, the doctor come and visit you at home when you were sick and delivered babies at home. They didn't then bill the patience insurance company for the costs. So, Patriot, catch up with what is happening in this century. The world changes and we have to change with it! God Speed!
I hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving!
joemama, why do you answer a question with a question? Of course I have read the Holy Bible, and especially enjoyed The Book of Daniel, Psalms, and Revelations. You still do not answer questions posed to you, not 'just' that one. I have also read the Torah, whether or not you believe in a higher being, our countries laws and morals came from the Holy Bible, like it or not.
JoyFulOne, I do not care to live in the past, 2004-2006pp (Pre Pelosi) would be just fine with me!
However, no one will want to live in what's coming if we cannot get spending under control. Most of the new programs coming out of Congress the past two years have broken our backs and loss of jobs. I DO NOT believe in a One World...ANYTHING, not economy, not government (a.k.a. the U.N., in fact we should do away with the U.N.), not a One World Bank.
No Joy, I live in the present and always have, however I do not like what I see coming as well as most people who take the time to RESEARCH so-called government facts, you sure as hell will not find the truth in the Media, or from Hard Left Liberals/Progressives. Most Americans do not believe in Illegal Immigration, including those from Mexico who earned their Citizenship.
You could sign up with LexisNexis for ALL information, including what is really going on in our government, or learn to find, read, and cross reference the personate Bills and laws being imposed on us without American approval.
I do not believe in Keynesian economics, no economy in history have spent their way out of economic problems, which is precisely why the Great Depression lasted 10 longer than it should have, thanks Presidents Wilson and FDR!! I do nevertheless believe in Austerity and removing power from the Unions, if not elimination.
Patriot55- You said "Of course I have read the Holy Bible, and especially enjoyed The Book of Daniel, Psalms, and Revelations."
Then of course you should be familiar with all the violent, hateful, and intolerant things that are in the Bible...right? You made it seem like you were only aware of this in the Quran and not other ancient religious texts.
If you're not here's a starter for you.
"our countries laws and morals came from the Holy Bible, like it or not."
No, enlightenment values. Hell, you see the Freemason imagery everywhere with the founders.
"Most of the new programs coming out of Congress the past two years have broken our backs and loss of jobs"
Nope, stimulus and TARP saved a ton of jobs and are on track to be repaid.
"You still do not answer questions posed to you"
What questions would you like answered? Glad to help.
@joemama
You normally post reasonably respectful and intelligent things, which is why I am surprised you quoted that "Bible: Intolerance" link. You might as well have a citation to the National Enquirer Magazine.
I haven't personally read or studied the Qur’an, so I'm not going to comment or take sides. Nor am I defending Patriot55. However, when junk is cited, it should be called out. I'm not going to do a point-by-point evaluation, but it's simple enough to just tackle the first few examples.
On the face of it, I think the issue is that (and maybe I'm wrong here) Patriot55 is suggesting the Qur’an encourages or approves of violent, hateful, or intolerant things. In return, you point out how the Bible discusses violent, hateful, or intolerance.
It's important to point out, assuming you have not studied this before, that Christianity consists of both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The New Testament invokes a new covenant, which pretty much invalidates much of the prior covenant mentioned in the New Testament. So, cherry picking quotes from the Old Testament, though easy, is a lazy way to take things out of context and paint an invalid picture of Christianity.
To give an example... in the past of the United States, slavery was accepted by many. Today, slavery is not accepted. There's no point in picking up a history book to try to prove how corrupt the United States is today when anyone would know that it's all in the past.
Furthermore, if the publisher of a history book talks about a particular genocide, it does not mean the publisher is approving of the event, but merely reporting on it.
So, looking at one example from the link you cited:
"An uncircumcised boy is to be abandoned by his parents and community"
At the time, the covenant required circumcision. This was replaced with Baptism. At the time circumcision was required, to deny circumcising a boy meant the decision to not enter into the covenant with God on behalf of the boy. So, it was the parent's decision to separate the child from the Christian community. Of course, when the child was old enough, he could choose to become circumcised to enter into the covenant, therefore returning to the Christian community.
This wasn't about ditching a child on the side of the road because he happened to not be circumcised. It was painting a picture of what circumcision meant to the covenant at that time. Of course, once the new covenant replaced circumcision with Baptism, this became a moot point, so it is merely historical record at this point.
Every instance from the link you cited is simply a matter of taking the information out of context.
Imagine if one were to criticize a newspaper for reporting that there were many deaths in a war.
Or, imagine if one were to criticize a physics book for saying that if you were to walk off a tall cliff, you'd die at the bottom.
One is simply reporting on a historical event, not approving of it. The other is matter-of-factly indicating the consequences of a particular action, according to the rules that exist in the universe.
There's little use in calling gravity a murderer or saying that newspapers cause wars.
Once the historically recorded information is eliminated... and the action/consequence declarations are removed... you're still left with information that is taken out of context, or information which is no longer relevant due to additional information in the Bible. The Bible must be considered in whole, not merely a convenient snippet taken out of context.
So, again, since I have not read the Qur’an, I can't comment specifically. So, I can only assume that it encourages Muslims to love their neighbors and to love their enemies (as the Bible does so) and discourages violence against either. If that's the case, then clearly Patriot55 may also be taking quotes out of context to further his agenda.
@joemama
You normally post reasonably respectful and intelligent things, which is why I am surprised you quoted that "Bible: Intolerance" link. You might as well have a citation to the National Enquirer Magazine.
I haven't personally read or studied the Qur’an, so I'm not going to comment or take sides. Nor am I defending Patriot55. However, when junk is cited, it should be called out. I'm not going to do a point-by-point evaluation, but it's simple enough to just tackle the first few examples.
On the face of it, I think the issue is that (and maybe I'm wrong here) Patriot55 is suggesting the Qur’an encourages or approves of violent, hateful, or intolerant things. In return, you point out how the Bible discusses violent, hateful, or intolerance.
It's important to point out, assuming you have not studied this before, that Christianity consists of both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The New Testament invokes a new covenant, which pretty much invalidates much of the prior covenant mentioned in the New Testament. So, cherry picking quotes from the Old Testament, though easy, is a lazy way to take things out of context and paint an invalid picture of Christianity.
To give an example... in the past of the United States, slavery was accepted by many. Today, slavery is not accepted. There's no point in picking up a history book to try to prove how corrupt the United States is today when anyone would know that it's all in the past.
Furthermore, if the publisher of a history book talks about a particular genocide, it does not mean the publisher is approving of the event, but merely reporting on it.
So, looking at one example from the link you cited:
"An uncircumcised boy is to be abandoned by his parents and community"
At the time, the covenant required circumcision. This was replaced with Baptism. At the time circumcision was required, to deny circumcising a boy meant the decision to not enter into the covenant with God on behalf of the boy. So, it was the parent's decision to separate the child from the Christian community. Of course, when the child was old enough, he could choose to become circumcised to enter into the covenant, therefore returning to the Christian community.
This wasn't about ditching a child on the side of the road because he happened to not be circumcised. It was painting a picture of what circumcision meant to the covenant at that time. Of course, once the new covenant replaced circumcision with Baptism, this became a moot point, so it is merely historical record at this point.
Every instance from the link you cited is simply a matter of taking the information out of context.
Imagine if one were to criticize a newspaper for reporting that there were many deaths in a war.
Or, imagine if one were to criticize a physics book for saying that if you were to walk off a tall cliff, you'd die at the bottom.
One is simply reporting on a historical event, not approving of it. The other is matter-of-factly indicating the consequences of a particular action, according to the rules that exist in the universe.
There's little use in calling gravity a murderer or saying that newspapers cause wars.
Once the historically recorded information is eliminated... and the action/consequence declarations are removed... you're still left with information that is taken out of context, or information which is no longer relevant due to additional information in the Bible. The Bible must be considered in whole, not merely a convenient snippet taken out of context.
So, again, since I have not read the Qur’an, I can't comment specifically. So, I can only assume that it encourages Muslims to love their neighbors and to love their enemies (as the Bible does so) and discourages violence against either. If that's the case, then clearly Patriot55 may also be taking quotes out of context to further his agenda.
Bob, it is so refreshing to read an intelligent person on these pages. There are so many that distill their missives to name calling and vitriolic. Their only "argument style: is pre-attributing positions to whoever they attack.
Once again, my compliments.
Bob - You said "You might as well have a citation to the National Enquirer Magazine."
The link cites all the actual Bible quotes. Everything is cited and linked to. You may not agree with some of the opinions but that's a different matter.
"It's important to point out, assuming you have not studied this before, that Christianity consists of both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The New Testament invokes a new covenant, which pretty much invalidates much of the prior covenant mentioned in the New Testament. So, cherry picking quotes from the Old Testament, though easy, is a lazy way to take things out of context and paint an invalid picture of Christianity.
Of course I've studied these things. I believe you're painting an invalid picture if you don't think many Christian sects don't still teach from the Old Testament. I definitely know that Catholic churches still do.
I don't buy this "Don't look at the Old Testament. God used to be crazy but reformed" crap.
Jesus himself validated the Old Testament several times.
By the way the link I gave before has easy ways to filter by Intolerance-> New Testament if you like those examples better.
Here's one of the first:
10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Bob, it is so refreshing to read an intelligent person on these pages. There are so many that distill their missives to name calling and vitriolic. Their only "argument style": is pre-attributing positions to whoever they attack.
Once again, my compliments.
@magistre
Thank you.
@joemama
"The link cites all the actual Bible quotes. Everything is cited and linked to."
Just as the National Enquirer includes truths, then twists these around for the sake of entertainment.
"You may not agree with some of the opinions but that's a different matter."
It's not a different matter. It's the very matter I was speaking of. I value the opinions of the link you cited about as much as I value the opinions of a magazine which talks about bat boys and Elvis sightings.
"Of course I've studied these things. I believe you're painting an invalid picture if you don't think many Christian sects don't still teach from the Old Testament. I definitely know that Catholic churches still do."
I agree with you. Not all sects of Christianity can be right. Of course, if you find the elements they all agree on, you will be better enlightened than simply focusing on the select areas they disagree on. I'm sure the same holds true for Muslims. Half a dozen Muslims crash some planes and suddenly all Muslims are held accountable. I do not agree with this. Likewise, cherry picking different sects of Christianity to prove that all of Christianity encourages violence and hatred is missing the point entirely.
"I don't buy this 'Don't look at the Old Testament. God used to be crazy but reformed' crap."
I don't buy it either. God wasn't crazy.
If someone you loved fell from a cliff and died, would you curse gravity, call gravity crazy, then disbelieve gravity because it causes too many problems? I don't exactly agree with your way of thinking. I follow it, but don't agree with it.
"Jesus himself validated the Old Testament several times."
As He should. The entirety of the Bible is important. However, you can't read about circumcision in the Old Testament, then say "see, it says it is required!" You'd be ignoring the New Testament. Of course, you also can't just read about Jesus in the New Testament and say, "See? God doesn't exist anymore. Now it's this Jesus fella'." Understanding of the Old Testament is required to understand the significance of Jesus and to know the love God has for us.
"By the way the link I gave before has easy ways to filter by Intolerance-> New Testament if you like those examples better."
I'm pretty sure the National Enquirer has a table of contents.
"Here's one of the first:
10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."
So, I'm interested in knowing what lessons you drew from that passage. Studying the Bible doesn't involve reading it alone in a room and saying "there, done." It also doesn't involve having someone read it for you, then give their interpretation. True study of the Bible involves reading, putting into context, discussing with those who are also studying, consulting with experts, and thoughtful prayer. Since you said you've studied the Bible, I will assume you have done all of this. So, I'm interested in knowing what conclusions you drew from this passage.
@joemama
"The link cites all the actual Bible quotes. Everything is cited and linked to."
Just as the National Enquirer includes truths, then twists these around for the sake of entertainment.
"You may not agree with some of the opinions but that's a different matter."
It's not a different matter. It's the very matter I was speaking of. I value the opinions of the link you cited about as much as I value the opinions of a magazine which talks about bat boys and Elvis sightings.
"Of course I've studied these things. I believe you're painting an invalid picture if you don't think many Christian sects don't still teach from the Old Testament. I definitely know that Catholic churches still do."
I agree with you. Not all sects of Christianity can be right. Of course, if you find the elements they all agree on, you will be better enlightened than simply focusing on the select areas they disagree on. I'm sure the same holds true for Muslims. Half a dozen Muslims crash some planes and suddenly all Muslims are held accountable. I do not agree with this. Likewise, cherry picking different sects of Christianity to prove that all of Christianity encourages violence and hatred is missing the point entirely.
"I don't buy this 'Don't look at the Old Testament. God used to be crazy but reformed' crap."
I don't buy it either. God wasn't crazy.
If someone you loved fell from a cliff and died, would you curse gravity, call gravity crazy, then disbelieve gravity because it causes too many problems? I don't exactly agree with your way of thinking. I follow it, but don't agree with it.
"Jesus himself validated the Old Testament several times."
As He should. The entirety of the Bible is important. However, you can't read about circumcision in the Old Testament, then say "see, it says it is required!" You'd be ignoring the New Testament. Of course, you also can't just read about Jesus in the New Testament and say, "See? God doesn't exist anymore. Now it's this Jesus fella'." Understanding of the Old Testament is required to understand the significance of Jesus and to know the love God has for us.
"By the way the link I gave before has easy ways to filter by Intolerance-> New Testament if you like those examples better."
I'm pretty sure the National Enquirer has a table of contents.
"Here's one of the first:
10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."
So, I'm interested in knowing what lessons you drew from that passage. Studying the Bible doesn't involve reading it alone in a room and saying "there, done." It also doesn't involve having someone read it for you, then give their interpretation. True study of the Bible involves reading, putting into context, discussing with those who are also studying, consulting with experts, and thoughtful prayer. Since you said you've studied the Bible, I will assume you have done all of this. So, I'm interested in knowing what conclusions you drew from this passage.
Bob - "Just as the National Enquirer includes truths, then twists these around for the sake of entertainment."
Except they don't twist a damn thing. They give their opinion on actual quotes in context. You can read the quote in context to see if you agree.
"It's not a different matter. It's the very matter I was speaking of. I value the opinions of the link you cited about as much as I value the opinions of a magazine which talks about bat boys and Elvis sightings."
I don't care what you think of the link really. I'm guessing you're christian and heavily biased.
It's convenient for sorting by subject matter. They're not making up fictional stuff about bat boys. They're discussing actual Bible quotes.
"Likewise, cherry picking different sects of Christianity to prove that all of Christianity encourages violence and hatred is missing the point entirely."
I never said all of Christianity encourages violence and hatred. You're using far right style straw man arguments at this point.
What I said is various sects place more importance on the Old Testament than you do apparently and consider it binding as Jesus did.
"I don't buy it either. God wasn't crazy.
If someone you loved fell from a cliff and died, would you curse gravity, call gravity crazy, then disbelieve gravity because it causes too many problems? I don't exactly agree with your way of thinking. I follow it, but don't agree with it."
Irrelevant. Gravity didn't say a whole bunch of hateful violent intolerant stuff and then slightly tone down the crazy later on.
"As He should. The entirety of the Bible is important."
Yes, It's important to realize all of the crazy hateful awful things the Christian god said and did in the Old Testament.
Also that Jesus said it was binding.
"I'm pretty sure the National Enquirer has a table of contents."
You complained about Old Testament quotes. I gave you a convenient way to get to the New Testament.
If you want to simply dismiss the site because you're Christian and it threatens you I certainly won't be surprised. It is a common reaction to questioning religion.
"So, I'm interested in knowing what lessons you drew from that passage. Studying the Bible doesn't involve reading it alone in a room and saying "there, done." It also doesn't involve having someone read it for you,"
It sure sounds like there's some serious suffering in store for anyone that doesn't want this religion shoved on them huh?
Like for instance people who aren't interested should just be slain...
Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
19:28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Acts 3 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
@joemama
"Except they don't twist a damn thing."
I pointed out an example of that page twisting something out of context and you dismissed it. It's clear that you are anti-Christian and are therefore heavily biased when discussing the Bible.
"They're discussing actual Bible quotes."
I looked at the link extensively. You don't need to explain to me what they discuss. My point is that they quote the Bible, but then they give their own spin. When I say they take things out of context, I don't mean they fail to quote the Bible. I mean they don't give the proper background to the meaning of what is being discussed. They don't explain the history and the customs of the time. If they took a quote about "washing feet" but do not actually give background as to the significance of this act from that time, their interpretation of the quote would be meaningless. I'll give you an example. I'll quote you:
ME: "Just as the National Enquirer includes truths, then twists these around for the sake of entertainment."
YOU: "Except they don't twist a damn thing."
So, there's proof that you think the National Enquirer is a credible source for news, right? Or am I taking what you said out of context? I mean, I DID quote you, didn't I? Agreeing or disagreeing with my opinion is your prerogative, but then you're just splitting hairs.
THAT'S what I mean about not applying the proper context to a quote.
"I never said all of Christianity encourages violence and hatred. What I said is various sects place more importance on the Old Testament..."
You said, "then of course you should be familiar with all the violent, hateful, and intolerant things that are in the Bible...right?" A spin doctor such as yourself knows full well that any text can be treated as a Rorschach test. A person reads it, studies it, and gains meaning. A different person reads it, studies it, and gains meaning. The meaning both derive from it can differ. You clearly have the hateful view of the Bible, or else you wouldn't be trying to defend how many violent, hateful, and intolerant things are in the Bible. The irony is that one of the ultimate themes of Christianity is forgiveness, and yet you can't seem to forgive the Bible. Go figure.
No matter how much you try to push *your* view of the Bible on other people, or how much you try to regurgitate the view of a website you clearly worship and would take the author's opinions at face value, it's still just your limited view that most disagree with. At this point, it says a whole lot more about you as a person than it says about the words on a computer screen.
"Irrelevant. Gravity didn't say a whole bunch of hateful violent intolerant stuff and then slightly tone down the crazy later on."
No, but the science books do. First, gravity is all about killing people just because they don't want to stand on the cliff's edge anymore.
"Way to punish the innocent, gravity."
Then, gravity proclaims, "look, I'm just here to keep you all from flying off of Earth and into space where you can't breathe."
"Riiiight, gravity... you can't try to convince me to trust you THIS time. I know you're just waiting to make me fall when I don't deserve it."
This is the way you seem to be treating the Bible. Is this how you read all texts?
"If you want to simply dismiss the site because you're Christian and it threatens you I certainly won't be surprised. It is a common reaction to questioning religion."
If you want to simply dismiss the Bible because you worship that site and the Bible threatens you, I certainly won't be surprised. It is a common reaction to questioning religion.
"It sure sounds like there's some serious suffering in store for anyone that doesn't want this religion shoved on them huh?"
Again, that's with spin. Without spin, it would be the equivalent of an early doctor warning people about germs.
Germs have always been around, even when people didn't know germs were there. You don't need to believe in germs to be affected by them. If you lived at a time when people didn't know germs existed, imagine someone coming up to you and saying, "I have been studying these things that appear to be microscopic and they make you sick. After much study, I have found that if you wash your hands regularly, you will become sick less often. However, if you never wash your hands, you may fall ill and die."
It sounds like your knee-jerk reaction to this is, "How dare you suggest I be slain if I don't want this belief-system shoved on me? The fact that you think I should be dead if I don't follow your ritual of hand-washing shows how hateful and intolerant you are!"
You're reading between the lines, but there is no text between the lines. So, the meaning you are adding only comes from your own belief system, not from the text itself. Is there talk about consequences in the Bible? Absolutely. I don't mean to suggest that the Bible is full of pixie dust and candy floating on pink clouds. It isn't. Neither is life. If you are to suggest that we should all turn our backs on life itself because life is full of hatefulness, intolerance, etc... then you've got your own journey to get through.
My original point, and the point I am sticking to, is not to try to convince you how you must live your life. If you wish to live your life with hate and intolerance, it will be your journey to travel. My only point was that you pointed at the Bible and talked about nothing but hate and intolerance.
If you see only hate and intolerance in the Bible, it would suggest that this is the "sect" to which you belong. Yet, you point at the people who only see hate and intolerance in the Bible, and act as though they are the bad guys. So, on one hand, you are preaching hate and intolerance. On the other hand, you are denouncing hate and intolerance. Perhaps you only wish to argue for the sake of arguing? I'm just trying to figure out your motivation in life. Is your life's purpose to find people who believe in forgiveness and love and try to convince them that they should see the hate and intolerance that they are bound to?
To give a little perspective outside of your own particular view, imagine if this exchange had taken place in a different manner.
From your exchange with Patriot55, it would appear he was making a blanket statement that the Qur’an was all about hate and intolerance. You replied by showing how the Bible is full of hate and intolerance, too.
I jumped in to point out how the Bible is a text with a much larger message than just individual passages. If you only take snippets, you'll miss the whole picture. I didn't attack the Qur’an, I simply defended the viewpoint of keeping things in context, which would apply to any text.
How you COULD HAVE responded was to say, "Yes, you're right. While some people DO take the passages in the Bible out of context, they ALSO take the passages in the Qur’an out of context as well. The same mentality that sees only hate and intolerance in the Qur’an is likely the same mentality as those in Christian sects who only see and follow hate and intolerance in the Bible."
This, I think, would have strengthened your position in your discussion with Patriot55. You would have gained my respect once again. I'm sure Patriot55 would have chimed in with a rebuttal, and all would have been well.
Instead, you simply repositioned your attack against Patriot55 into an attack against me. It's as if you've got this condition where you need to be the only one who is right. If anyone chimes in, no matter how right they might be in your eyes, you'll find something in what they said that you disagree with. If you believe they are a Christian, you'll attack their faith by pointing out hateful Christians. If they point out that they, too, disagree with hateful Christians, you'll attack the Bible outright, as if to suggest that the hateful Christians simply "got it right". So, on one hand, you're attacking hateful Christians... on the other hand, you're suggesting that they're the only ones who came to the proper conclusions when studying the Bible. It's as if you are actually preaching hate and intolerance by pointing out how much hate and intolerance there is in the world.
I'm curious to know that if you were able to fix the world, what would the world look like? How do you think the world should be?
Bob - You said "I pointed out an example of that page twisting something out of context and you dismissed it."
No Bob, you chose one passage -> "An uncircumcised boy is to be abandoned by his parents and community" and simply made up your own interpretation of it as if it meant an uncircumcised boy is not to be abandoned. There is nothing backing up your interpretation at all so we could just as easily accuse you of twisting the words of the bible.
" It's clear that you are anti-Christian and are therefore heavily biased when discussing the Bible."
Don't make things up. I'm not anti-Christian. I'm objective.
"My point is that they quote the Bible, but then they give their own spin"
Just like you did.
"I mean they don't give the proper background to the meaning of what is being discussed."
I'd love to see you spin some of the specific quotes I've posted to change the clear meaning.
"ME: "Just as the National Enquirer includes truths, then twists these around for the sake of entertainment."
YOU: "Except they don't twist a damn thing."
So, there's proof that you think the National Enquirer is a credible source for news, right?"
That's just silly. The site does not put Bible quotes in as a reply to an unrelated topic. Address specific issues or your never going to have a point.
"You clearly have the hateful view of the Bible, or else you wouldn't be trying to defend how many violent, hateful, and intolerant things are in the Bible."
Making up more crap now. I have an objective unbrainwashed view of the Bible. Therefore I able to see the great, good, bad, and horrific things it contains. Some people are blinded to some of those categories somehow.
"The irony is that one of the ultimate themes of Christianity is forgiveness, and yet you can't seem to forgive the Bible."
WTF? I'm merely pointing out some of the absurdities it contains. It's a book. It doesn't need forgiven.
"No matter how much you try to push *your* view of the Bible on other people, or how much you try to regurgitate the view of a website you clearly worship and would take the author's opinions at face value,"
I'm not pushing my view any more than you are. I'm having a discussion.
I also don't worship the website or agree with all it's opinions. If you can quit making up straw man arguments and adding ad homs we can have a logical discussion here maybe.
"it's still just your limited view that most disagree with."
Don't try to speak for "most". If you disagree with something name it.
"At this point, it says a whole lot more about you as a person than it says about the words on a computer screen."
Yeah, it says I'm having a logical discussion while you repeatedly make up stuff and try to attack me.
"No, but the science books do. First, gravity is all about killing people just because they don't want to stand on the cliff's edge anymore.
"Way to punish the innocent, gravity."
Then, gravity proclaims, "look, I'm just here to keep you all from flying off of Earth and into space where you can't breathe."
"Riiiight, gravity... you can't try to convince me to trust you THIS time. I know you're just waiting to make me fall when I don't deserve it."
This is the way you seem to be treating the Bible. Is this how you read all texts? "
That doesn't even make any sense. Try again. I read the Bible and evaluate what I'm reading. This has zero do to with your gravity nonsense.
"If you want to simply dismiss the Bible because you worship that site and the Bible threatens you"
I don't worship the site or dismiss the entire Bible. Get it straight.
"Again, that's with spin. Without spin, it would be the equivalent of an early doctor warning people about germs"
Germs are science, religion is a belief system. If some told you "join Scientology or I will kill you" you might take issue with that. I take issue with it in the Bible.
" I don't mean to suggest that the Bible is full of pixie dust and candy floating on pink clouds. It isn't. Neither is life. If you are to suggest that we should all turn our backs on life itself because life is full of hatefulness, intolerance, etc"
I'm not suggesting anyone turn their backs on life because of the hate and intolerance contained in the Bible.
"If you wish to live your life with hate and intolerance, it will be your journey to travel."
I don't like hate or intolerance. That's why I'm taking issue with it in the Bible.
"My only point was that you pointed at the Bible and talked about nothing but hate and intolerance."
Yes, the current topic is hate and intolerance in the Bible.
"If you see only hate and intolerance in the Bible"
Nope, I see it all. It's just the current topic.
"How you COULD HAVE responded was to say, "Yes, you're right. While some people DO take the passages in the Bible out of context, they ALSO take the passages in the Qur’an out of context as well. The same mentality that sees only hate and intolerance in the Qur’an is likely the same mentality as those in Christian sects who only see and follow hate and intolerance in the Bible."
That would be one way to respond but it's wasn't my point. My point being all ancient religious texts contain hate and intolerance. They contain good things too but there's certainly a lot of crazy stuff.
"Instead, you simply repositioned your attack against Patriot55 into an attack against me."
I didn't attack you. I had a discussion about the hate and intolerance contained in the Bible. You made it a bit more hostile than it needed to be.
"It's as if you are actually preaching hate and intolerance by pointing out how much hate and intolerance there is in the world."
Nope, I'm pointing out that there is hate and intolerance in many ancient religious texts.
"I'm curious to know that if you were able to fix the world, what would the world look like? How do you think the world should be?"
It'd be nice if people could be objective about their own religions as well as other people's and not have a "my team is more righteous than yours" attitude. When people get too wrapped up in religion it causes wars and holds back the advancement of society.
Well put Bob, context is everything, back when I was first commenting on this piece, I was attacked for making ‘opinions’ with civility, below is just the most recent example of magistre. So magistre where was that when you called me…see below:
“magistre said...
JoyFulOne, You're going to disturb PatriotSS with all this reality. He's a mental fascist and insists that "reality" is his to define and since he begins each discourse with the assertion: "I'm always right and because you challenge my world-view you admit that not only are you wrong but your also a Commie,lying,rat-bastard,etc". You'll never dissuade mental fascists from their frantically held beliefs.
November 19, 2010 12:34 PM”
On November 29 7:55PM, you backtrack on what you said to Bob, then attack his beliefs as ‘biased’, or your beliefs not also biased?
The Holy Bible, both the Old Testament and the New are stories written 2,000 years ago, like it or not, believe it or not, the Bible gave us the Ten Commandments, which is a good blueprint for life as any I have ever witnesses. It does not matter whether or not you are religious, agnostic, or atheist. Now, I ask you magistre, are Muslims any more respected than Christians? They can pray in public, in schools, anywhere they have the notion, and we are expected to accept that, I believe I know why, let’s hear your point of view.
Christians do not commit Jihad when someone does not agree with their principles or convert to their faith as a basis of being accepted. This country was based on religion, that is just a plain fact, however as much as I would like to see more people turn to faith before it’s too late, I and most of us put up with your intolerances, but we do not hate you because you do not believe, Christians will live and let live…we just do what we can for mankind.
For many years, here and around the world, I have made many Muslim friends, people I trust. Here is some food for thought, have you by chance noticed that those who preach intolerance, are those who are the most intolerant (both politically and religious speaking). Regardless of what country or faith they profess, those are the most tolerant, giving, charitable good people here on earth.
Patriot55 - You said "Well put Bob, context is everything"
So, it souns like you are saying that you were wrong for taking quotes from the Quran out of context.
"They can pray in public, in schools, anywhere they have the notion, and we are expected to accept that,"
Are you saying we shouldn't let Christians or Muslims pray in public? That's weird.
"Christians do not commit Jihad when someone does not agree with their principles or convert to their faith as a basis of being accepted."
Some Christians and Muslims do horrific things because of religion. Most do not.
Most Christians don't advocate killing abortion docs...some do. Many Christians are responsible for taking away the rights of homosexuals in the US. They should be ashamed of themselves.
"This country was based on religion, that is just a plain fact,"
No, Enlightenment values. The signs are all over.
"I and most of us put up with your intolerances"
You're the one being intolerant here. Did you read the crap you just wrote about Muslims?
"Christians will live and let live"
Many will and many will not, just like other people. Look at how many are so intolerant that they would take away someones rights because of their sexual preference.
"have you by chance noticed that those who preach intolerance, are those who are the most intolerant (both politically and religious speaking)."
That's pretty obvious. You preach intolerance and I imagine you're actually pretty intolerant.
Patriot55 What are you drinking?
Don't covet your neighbors slave PAtriot55.
@joemama, as I said…’Everything in Context’, something you and Liberal/Progressives know nothing about, as illustrated by your reply/assumption. Once again you take what people say as facts assumed, not in evidence although I must say I am not surprised.
To you points above, however distorted you made them sound:
"They can pray in public, in schools, anywhere they have the notion, and we are expected to accept that,"
Are you saying we shouldn't let Christians or Muslims pray in public? That's weird.
Christian prayer groups have been kicked off the Capital steps only for praying in quiet, yet Muslims pray there at will without interruption. Christian and Jewish children cannot pray in school, yet Muslim children are allowed. It is NOT a Winter Holiday, it is Christmas and has always been, other ‘legal’ immigrants have never complained, only atheists, Muslims, and the ACLU, which is only a contradiction in terms.
Christians as opposed to radical Jihadists do not cut people’s heads off, or kill as many innocents as possible in public places. NOTE to all Muslim Terrorists; “there are NOT 72 Virgins or anything else awaiting you, burn in Hell for your crimes against humanity.
"This country was based on religion, that is just a plain fact,"
No, Enlightenment values. The signs are all over.
If you actually this country is/was not based in religion, read the “Federalist Papers”. According to the Preamble it is God who endowed us with our Rights; it dammed sure isn’t B. Hussein Obama!
Another thing, I am not intolerant of Muslims, had you taken the time to read my posts, you would have known that, you once again you ‘ass/u/me’.
@magistre: Drinking, I have not had so much as a sip of alcohol since I was married and my wife was pregnant (37 years ago), nor do I smoke or participate in drugs.
@joemama, magistre, JoyFulOne, it must be nice to be so perfect that it gives you the right to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner while being so narrow-minded.
Patriot55 - You said "’Everything in Context"
So, I pointed out how you pulled quotes out of context. :)
"Christian prayer groups have been kicked off the Capital steps only for praying in quiet, yet Muslims pray there at will without interruption. Christian and Jewish children cannot pray in school, yet Muslim children are allowed"
Show me some proof of any widespread policy that allows Muslims to pray where Christians can't. It looks like you made that up.
I see Christians out pushing their religion every week. I never see Muslims doing this and there's a sizable Muslim population where I live.
"Christians as opposed to radical Jihadists do not cut people’s heads off, or kill as many innocents as possible in public places."
Some radical Christians and Muslims do awful things in the name of religion.
Who's behind taking away freedoms from people in this country based on sexual preference? Christians. Who shot George Tiller in a church? A Christian. Look at the lives Christians are ruining here.
Throughout history horrific things have been done in the name of Christianity. The slaughter of the Cathars, the Crusades, witch burnings, IRA bombings, the horrendous treatment of native Americans by missionaries...the list goes on and on.
Because of these examples should we be bigoted towards Christians in general now?
"If you actually this country is/was not based in religion, read the “Federalist Papers”.
Here I'm going to prove this to you once and for all. It's stated in plain English here.
Notice the quote: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".
"Another thing, I am not intolerant of Muslims, had you taken the time to read my posts, you would have known that"
I read your posts. That's where I saw the intolerance.
"it must be nice to be so perfect that it gives you the right to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner"
Where was this judging, jurying, and executing you speak of?
The illustration of the guy who made the car is pretty disturbing. Basically if you have money you make more money and the only chance a non money haver has of people sharing that money with him is to tinker in his garage until he comes up with an idea bigger than any of them combined not to mention that he will end up making a mess.
@joemama said “I see Christians out pushing their religion every week. I never see Muslims doing this and there's a sizable Muslim population where I live.”
"Christians as opposed to radical Jihadists do not cut people’s heads off, or kill as many innocents as possible in public places."
Some radical Christians and Muslims do awful things in the name of religion.
Name me one act of sever radical violence by Christians in the past 10 years or more.
Who's behind taking away freedoms from people in this country based on sexual preference? Christians. Who shot George Tiller in a church? A Christian. Look at the lives Christians are ruining here.
Throughout history horrific things have been done in the name of Christianity. The slaughter of the Cathars, the Crusades, witch burnings, IRA bombings, the horrendous treatment of native Americans by missionaries...the list goes on and on.
Because of these examples should we be bigoted towards Christians in general now?
So you have to go back to the Middle Ages for a war between Catholics and Arabs/Persians to make a point, and the Indians since the 15th century, hello Lincoln and other part of the U.S. War Dept. in the New Country killed Indians left and right.…Is that the best you can do???,
"If you actually believe this country is/was not based in religion, read the “Federalist Papers”.
Here I'm going to prove this to you once and for all. It's stated in plain English here.
Not relevant to my argument
Notice the quote: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".
"Another thing, I am not intolerant of Muslims, had you taken the time to read my posts, you would have known that"
I read your posts. That's where I saw the intolerance.
You did not read what I said about the Muslims I worked with, or those who are my friends.
"it must be nice to be so perfect that it gives you the right to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner"
Where was this judging, jurying, and executing you speak of?
Realize it or not, you and most Progressives do judge those who do not agree with their philosophy.
Patriot55 - You said "Name me one act of sever radical violence by Christians in the past 10 years or more."
Why confine it to 10 years? Are you trying to say Christians were violent until just 10 years ago? Do you want us to forget about Christians slaughtering so many in Rwanda? You'd like us to not think about the Klu Klux Klan?
Oh well, these guys are still killing, these guys kill Hindus, then of course you have the murder of abortion docs and gay people.
"So you have to go back to the Middle Ages for a war between Catholics and Arabs/Persians to make a point, and the Indians since the 15th century, hello Lincoln and other part of the U.S. War Dept. in the New Country killed Indians left and right.…Is that the best you can do???,"
I gave you many examples to show that Christians have been violent and involved in massacres throughout history. Were those trivial slaughter to you?
What is this about the War Dept? Are you saying if they killed Indians it was ok for Christians to do whatever they wanted to them?
"Not relevant to my argument"
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" <- Directly disproved your argument.
"You did not read what I said about the Muslims I worked with, or those who are my friends."
I don't care about your claims. You made your intolerance obvious.
"Realize it or not, you and most Progressives do judge those who do not agree with their philosophy."
You've obviously been the judgmental one.
It has fun watching Patriot and joemama spar, but on Patriot's last comment, I had to jump in. Patriot states: If Obama does not get onboard with the way a Government works, I suggest you arm yourself for the coming tyranny.
What a joke! Seriously, I am laughing. The GOP found out what happens when a President doesn't get it in 2008. If you haven't figured it out Patriot, it is the mistake of Congress and the President that when you spend OUR taxes on the Military Industrial Complex (ONLY) instead of on domestic issues, you get booted. When our tax dollars go to communist county loans, people get upset.
Thank you Joemama for making so much sense. It is funny how Patriot likes to talk about history EXCEPT when it goes against his own argument. He is a silly boy!
Thanks for the compliment, I would much rather be a silly little boy than live in ignorant bliss of the facts about what is going on in this country. Who quoted this; “When Government rules the people, you have tyranny, when the people rule the government, you have freedom.” Hint…he signed the Declaration of Independence.
More importantly, do you agree with this statement; “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”
Sorry, but I didn’t realize you were a Marxist, or at least talk as one…please tell me you didn’t actually say “Military Industrial Complex”. Haven’t heard that phrase much since the 1960’s and 1970’s…According to the Constitution, the primary role of our Government is to ensure we have a large well trained military to protect the people and to ensure our rights as Americans.
A couple of the ramifications of Marxist social and economic ideology, Marxism is summed up in the Encarta Reference Library as “a theory in which class struggle is a central element in the analysis of social change in Western societies, such as redistribution of wealth to eliminate social classes.” Marxism is the antithesis of capitalism which is defined by Encarta as “an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods, characterized by a free competitive market and motivation by profit.” Marxism is the system of socialism of which the dominant feature is ‘public (not private)’ ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange. Simply put, we are less free today than we have ever been, and thanks to Obama, we are very close to being a bankrupt Nation. He wants to raise the National Debt (again) to $16 Trillion dollars. Are you ready for a One World Government
The theology of Marxism is Social Justice as the primary religion, which is no real religion other than economic, in Obama’s book “Dreams of my Father” he states clearly that Social Justice is the ONLY way in which he believes we will move in the right direction.
Social Justice argues that there are certain basic needs that must be offered to all. These include things like truly equal education in all schools and programs that would help all children have the financial opportunity to attend by changing the grading system so that everyone may have a higher education and the Government to pay for those who cannot afford tuition. Far left groups, often termed socialist even if they differ from true definitions of socialism, further argue that a just society cannot be had unless everyone has access to food, safe shelter and medical care. The way to achieve this is through taxation and government implementation and massive over-regulation of programs that will guarantee complete equality for all people. THIS IS NOT WHAT AMERICA IS ABOUT!!!
This interesting bit of propaganda is more more effective today than in 1948. There are few historians anywhere to have in-depth discussions of the half-truths, omissions and mis-directions presented in the cartoon.
There's no time or space to have that discussion, here--or most places.
Propaganda you say? This short cartoon is an indicator that has been with us for a very long time, and it’s happening again today. Note the name of the ‘fix-it all elixir’ (ism), it is a path many have tried to take us down before. Each time some portion of ism sticks for the next one, it happened in 1913, during the Woodrow Wilson/FDR (one Republican/one Democrat, both were Progressives) periods. The only reason FDR did not succeed is WWII (till then he had the country just about where he wanted it, by extending the Great Depression 10 years longer than would have taken handled properly. The Bottle of ISM has the meaning of Socialism/Marxism/Communism as opposed to freedom. FDR did the New Deal as an attempt to ease the Great Depression, which in turn extended it instead by spending Government Tax dollars on a so-called ‘fix’ to stabilize the dollar…It only made it worse. When Germany began WWII, the United States geared up factories to help the E.U. (Great Briton in particular), until we entered the war in December 07, 1941 after the attack on Pearl Harbor. THAT is what drug us up from the Depression, not the New Deal.
The New Deal is a series of economic programs implemented in the United States between 1933 and 1936. They were passed by the U.S. Congress during the first term of Franklin Deleno Roosevelt, President of the U.S., from 1933 to 1936. The programs were responses to the Great Depression, and focused on what historians call the "3 Rs": relief, recovery and reform. That is, relief for the unemployed and poor; recovery of the economy to normal levels; and reform of the financial system to prevent a repeat depression.
Historians distinguish a "First New Deal" (1933) and a "Second New Deal" (1934–36). Some programs were declared unconstitutional others were repealed duringWWII. The "First New Deal" (1933) dealt with groups; from banking and railroads to industry and farming, all of which demanded help for economic recovery. A "Second New Deal" in 1934-36 included the Wagner Actto promote labor unions, the Works Progress Administration (WPA) relief program, the
Social Security Act, and new programs to aid tenant farmers and migrant workers. The final major items of New Deal legislation were the creation of the U.S. Housing Authority and Farm Security Administration, both in 1937, then the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, which set maximum hours and minimum wages for most categories of workers and the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938.
Despite Roosevelt campaigning heavily against anti-New Deal Republicans and anti-New Deal Democrats, Republicans gained many seats in Congress in the 1938 midterm elections and the Democrats opponents of the New Deal retained their seats, resulting in the WPA, CCC and other relief programs being shut down during World War II. In the 1960s, Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society took New Deal policies further. After 1974,** laissez faire (the theory or system of government that upholds the autonomous character of the economic order, believing that government should intervene as little as possible in the direction of economic affairs.)** views grew in support, calling for deregulation of the economy and ending New Deal regulation of transportation, banking and communications in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Several New Deal programs remain active, with some still operating under the original names, including the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), the Federal Crop Insurance Corporation (FCIC), the Federal Housing Administration (FHA), and the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA). The largest programs still in existence today are the Social Security System and the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).
Both of these progressive programs (The New Deal and The Great Society) needed a Central Bank (Federal Reserve) to pay for them…Anytime you involve Big Labor, it will always cost more than is required. If we have a chance at getting out of the economy, we will have a need to put solid constraints if not eliminate Unions. If we do not do so soon, we will also have to bring austerity measures, just as Greece, Italy, Spain, Germany and the U.K. have began theirs to save the economy. Unfunded Union pensions are already un-sustained via mismanagement of funds, are now owed $3 Trillion dollars…They are looking to the Government to make them solvent again. With what is going on in today’s economy we cannot afford to do so, yet it may happen nonetheless.
The Federal Reserve Act December 23, 1913 which had arisen from a scare in 1907, and previous scares in 1837 and 1893-1897, the American economy was showing signs of weakness as a number of business and Wall Street brokerages went bankrupt. In October, the respected Knickerbocker Trust in New York City and the Westinghouse Electric Company both failed, touching off a series of events known as the Panic of 1907.
In the wake of the initial business collapses, stock market prices plummeted and depositors made a massive run on the nation’s banks. The U.S. Treasury pumped millions of dollars into weak banks in the hope of saving them, but the string of collapsed institutions lengthened.
The Gold Standard was under assault, which is when J.P. Morgan acted to restore order, over the course of the next three weeks, Morgan and his associates labored to channel money from the strong institutions to the weaker ones in an effort to keep them afloat.
The joint effort of the government and the business leaders improved conditions markedly over the course of several weeks. While the crisis passed, the finger-pointing began. Reform elements of both political parties believed that the American banking system was fundamentally flawed and needed wholesale change. Economists, however, held that Roosevelt's progressive legislation had upset the natural order of the economy and the government should stop its meddling.
With the passing of the Owen-Glass Federal Reserve Act of 1913, the Federal Reserve System was created. The "Fed" was designed to be flexible and responsive to the economy and independent of politics. The Fed has evolved through the years by implementing many strict checks and balances. New departments, the General Accounting Office, GAO, and the Office of Management & Budget, OMB, were created to audit the Fed and most other government departments. As a result, the American economy, and American society are more stable…or so they say. What we really need is to go back to the gold standard and stop overspending.
Sorry, Patriot55, Woodrow Wilson and FDR were both Democrats and both 'progressives' ~ I don't like that term: 'progressives'! Everything they are trying now has been tried over and over with the same results - Abject failure! So please refer to them as "regressives" - it's more befitting! LOL!!
This was shown to me at a government school assembly when I was in seventh grade, around 1949.
I am willing to bet no government school would dare to do the same today!
Once our monetary system was usurped by going off the gold standard and the introduction of a private Federal Reserve bank that issues debt instuments (Federal Reserve Notes) instead of "Silver Certificates" it could only be, "when", not, "if" our constitutional freedoms would be stripped from us.
WHO IS KEEPING TRACK OF THE TRILLIONS? PLEASE HELP US FIGHT THE FED WITH YOUR EMAILS. TAKE THE TIME TO SEND IT TO JUST 2 PEOPLE, WE WILL WIN THIS WAR.
If we can get this clip in front of 50 million people, it's game over...
http://dailybail.com/home/there-are-no-words-to-describe-the-following-part-ii.html
Help spread the word about stealth Bailouts from the FED. It's your tax money $30,000 per person just last year alone! Tens of millions have no idea what the Federal Reserve even does.
oday, the unions are impotent, the family farm is just about gone (now theirs big Agra/business), small business is being trampled on by big business and the government, big business (the corporate class) has overwhelmed our system and government and politicians are corporate class wanna-bes that sold their souls to big business and the Devil. Ism isn't our downfall it's that we lost our checks and balances when it comes to taming big business and now we're headed to a Plutocracy that will resemble the ones in South America (2% filthy rich, 10% professionals and wanna-be "servants" and 88% dirt poor).
oday, the unions are impotent, the family farm is just about gone (now theirs big Agra/business), small business is being trampled on by big business and the government, big business (the corporate class) has overwhelmed our system and government and politicians are corporate class wanna-bes that sold their souls to big business and the Devil. Ism isn't our downfall it's that we lost our checks and balances when it comes to taming big business and now we're headed to a Plutocracy that will resemble the ones in South America (2% filthy rich, 10% professionals and wanna-be "servants" and 88% dirt poor).
You know,ccapers1,along with the other "goop-mongers" one of you should really get a dictionary (or better yet, someone to read it to you) and find out the real definitions for the words you use and stop relying on the tripe all too readily supplied by the "goop" twins, Beck and Limbaugh. If you learn to read and understand what you read maybe someone will take pity on you and participate in a discussion not name-calling.
"Yes we can!" anyone?
hey "magistre", what ISM are you selling? Sorry for calling you a Progressive Democrat. I know you liberals take offense to being labeled as yourself. What a shame it would be to be like you.
ccapers1 you can't get anything right can you? (no pun intended). You didn't call me any kind of a Democrat (thank you) and obviously your drivel-machine is off-track again. Why don't you try going to school and learning to read and comprehend. I know that will be difficult for you but it must be done.
I have to agree with magistre! Capers is just mouthing Limbaugh, Hannity, and the rest of the Faux News folks. About a 1/4 of our US citizens don't even know what Capitalism is . Capers has to do some research on what other forms of governments there are. He certainly doesn't have a clue. We ALL need to research the facts. The media, both on the right and left is mostly opinion, so lets ALL research the facts. We all have our own opinions, but there is only ONE fact.
This is a little off message, but my hat is off to John Boehner for coming out in front of God and everyone and saying that, "Yes, President Obama is a US citizen and he is a Christian." First comment coming from the GOP that has made some sense in a long time. Kudos Boehner! I see a ray of hope that there is a little sanity in the Republican party! But don't get your hopes up!
Dear magistre, I pray for your soul. You constantly seek to injure and destroy your fellow man; you truly have subjugated your soul to satan. Please read the following and learn how to fill your heart with love and compassion instead of the evil that consume you. http://www.cwlinc.com/Renounce-satans-lies.htm
Wow, ccapers1 went full on creepy psycho. Ewww.
To: ccapers! You have lost it! Magist is no where near meeting up with the devil. To add a little humor to the discussion, I received via email both liberal and conservative articles. I just received from OneNewsNow an article and on the subject line it said: A gay Conservative is an oxymoron. Does that include those Log Cabin dudes?
Thank you JoyFulOne for the kind words. I don't know what ccapers! does in the Log Cabin but I definitely see him as a "tea bagger".
Let's see, ccaper! by your own words, you would throw the poor,en massse into The Pit but I'm the evil one. You certainly have a warped sense of morality-and please refrain from making up points-of-view for those you disagree with and then "cleverly" countering the arguments you've presented for them. Isn't it long passed your bed time?
Let's see, ccaper! by your own words, you would throw the poor,en massse into The Pit but I'm the evil one. You certainly have a warped sense of morality-and please refrain from making up points-of-view for those you disagree with and then "cleverly" countering the arguments you've presented for them. Isn't it long passed your bed time?
Thank you magistre! Not only do you make total sense, you have a great sense of humor! I have noticed that ccapers starts name calling when he can not back up what he/she is saying, or disagrees with your opinion! Anywho, have a great day!
@magistre; (who woke this thread up again?) I see you and joyfulone are still putting every person with whom you disagree with, neither of you have no shame or a clue as to where we are heading. What are your feelings on Obama’s new $3.7 Trillion dollar budget? Shame this is not 2012, are you now disagreeing with the NYT, ABC and CBS news. Let me see, you do not believe in Christian or other religious values with the exception of another unseen higher being…Islam. No one can pray in schools or if you prefer, in public buildings, but it is alright for Muslims to be allowed to pray three times (out of their five) during school hours. Yeah, that makes sense coming from you guys! I am sure you were against the Patriot Act under Bush, what do you think about it now that the left has not only voted it back, and much more intrusive than under Bush. How is it can you all be so myopic to anyone who does not share you opinion(s)?
To Patriot: Let's start with the 3.7 budget. It is a good start. Just got done watching the subcommittee hearing with Lew. The GOP House wants to cut entitilement programs that would do nothing except hurt the economy, but when it comes to the building of an Air Force engine that we don't need, they are all for that. Since the House now is GOP they couldn't give a flying rats ass about jobs. Their first subcommittee hearing for the 112th Congress was about abortion. Ummm! Lew worked with a bi-partisn team to come up with the budget with DOD approval. It took 8 years to get us in this CF, and then all the sudden the GOP wants the books balanced by 2012. Watching the GOP House members during this meeting was funnier than watching Jon Stewart. They all have amnesia. Oh, and for prayer in schools? Do it in church. At my Grandchildren's school, the Muslim kids are not excused to pray 3 or 4 times a day. So I am not sure what you are talking about. Patriot Act? I watched the House debate this, and there are 3 parts of it that the Dems want dropped. Not the GOP. The GOP talks all about sticking with the Constitution when it suits them. The GOP use fear, half truths, and down right lies when it comes to most anything, but especially the Patriot Act. And don't get me started about Gitmo. Largest travesty of our lifetimes. Put a stain on this nation that will take decades to recover from. Open a book, fact check you stuff and come back and try to make some sense.
(un)PatriotSS I see your still using your "Beck's Basic Guide" to supply your "arguments" (name-calling) against people who think. I'm sorry but you're just pitiful, almost as bad as ccaper!
Joyfullone: So, how do you think Obama will pay for the $3.7 Trillion, China is backing off buying our Treasury Notes with intentions of stopping altogether should our AAA credit rating falters. Until that time comes, they are raising our interest rates. Currently we are now paying over $840 Billion per year; however the $3.7 Trillion does not pay anything on the interest.
Anyone who gives the budget chart a cursory glance can see the debt will continue to skyrocket under the White House proposal. In fact, the long-term outlook shows the public debt -- which isn't even the entire debt -- soaring from about $11 trillion this year to nearly $19 trillion in 2021. Driving that increase is the fact that annual deficits will never fall below $600 billion. To justify the administrations claim, Lew said the administration was merely referring to "primary balance" -- or federal spending minus interest payments. Pressed to explain this claim, the president hinted at the rationale.
"We've racked up a whole bunch of debt. And there's a lot of interest on that debt," he said. "So in the same way that if you've got a credit card and you've got a big balance, you may not be adding to principal. You've still got all that interest that you've got to pay. Well, we've got a big problem in terms of accumulated interest that we're paying and that's why we're going to have to whittle down further the debt that's already been accumulated."
Verification: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/feb/15/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-white-house-budget-would-not-add/
What would happen to you if you ignore your mortgage, auto payment, or your credit cards if you do not pay the interest, worse yet if you do not pay the IRS interest should you miscalculate your taxes, or taxes are so high you have to do a payment plan with them?
magistre...Do you watch Beck, I ask due to the fact that I do not, nor do I watch Hannity or any-other so called entertainment shows. Although I do watch the news on FNC, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN plus I also read the NYT. This gives me (a Media Watchdog) the fuel I need to discredit many false claims.
BTW-You are the name caller of the past year and starting on a new one! Personally we have never had to pay interest on anything, we TCB.
To Patriott55: Oh, you mean the 3.7 Trillion borrowed by bushtard for the Iraq war from China? Oh, and then kept those costs out of the fiscal budget? Well, if you would take the time to read the fiscal 2011/2012 budget, you will find out how we are going to pay off bush's debt. To cut back drastically on entitlement programs now would be devastating to our economy. This is not a Democratic idea they pulled out of their asses, many top Republican experts also agree. You really ought to get off Faux News and watch C-Span and get the FACTS.
Of course I wouldn't ignore my bills, I would pay for them. But I have a little problem paying for a $3 TRILLION dollar needless war with my taxes. Again, we might as well have taken that $3 Trillion and had a bon-fire.
There is waste galore in a lot of programs. We should address those 1st and every program needs to be cut back. It just burns my ass to watch a macho Texas (R) Congressman say that it is more important to build an extra jet engine that we don't need, then eliminate programs to help starving kids in America. Is that your idea of Patriotic? iDrop the bush tax cuts on the top 2% of Corps and we would get back about about $700 Billion back in 10 years. And if there is a soul out there that still believes in the "trickle down effect" needs to check in to a re-hab. That is the biggest lie out there. We tried that experiment during the bush w. administration and look how many jobs that created. You should be laughing off your chair right now. Again, cut the Faux News talking points and read the bill. And again, took 8 years to get us in this mess and it is laughable beyond belief that the House GOP's think the books should be balanced fiscal 2012. There is some drug testing that needs to be done!
Patriot55, I'm glad to see that your adult version has returned. I don't necessarily agree with what you say but then again I don't nedessarily disagree either. Once again, thank you for the maturity.
Patriot55 it is funny in that our veiwing habits aren't so dissimilar. About the only diferrence is I don't read the NYT. I do read some Chicago publications.
magistre, I believe we can agree to disagree…
@Joyfullone; I cannot find any records which show that Bush borrowed any money from China, not even on FactCheck.org. We had a wonderful economy from 2001-2006, then the Democrats took both Houses in 2007, this is when the housing market began to collapse due to Barney Frank and Chris Dodd supporting Freddie Mae, Freddie Mac, Acorn, and forcing Banks to give sub-prime mortgages to those who could not afford a home. (This IS supported on FactCheck.org) I did locate the war budget (each year he was in Office) from Iraqi Freedom through 2008 never got out of the Billions; it did not even hit a Trillion since he had paid for much of the war.
(Laughing) Bush NEVER spent 3.7 Trillion on Iraq and Afghanistan in the eight years as president, and lest we forget, the majority of Democrats in both Houses also supported both of those wars and voted on them. (FYI---I Do watch C-Span and DVR what I will miss.) Bush’s unemployment numbers averaged 5% till 2007. Have you yet to learn that higher taxes on private businesses plus the Capital Gains tax (and waiting to see what it will cost them to operate due to ObamaCare) is why they are not hiring any longer?
Tickle-down Economics was applied by Reagan in 1982; Bill Clinton used the same strategy in 1994 to get re-elected. Economists from Columbia and Harvard claim that if Bush had not gotten the $700 Billion in November of 2008 (of which most of that money went to Obama), that the Housing Market and Banks would have caused a great depression. I really didn’t like the cost by Bush at the time, but in hindsight it was needed. Under Obama, both the National Debt and Deficit have hit new all time highs, he also set a new record for spending from George Washington through Bush, as of 2011 the total comes to just over $5 Trillion Dollars, with $3.7 Trillion for 2012. The very same Economists and the CBO have said that including interest on borrowed money from 2009 to present will total $19 Trillion by 2019.
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